Braking, or not braking

[allen-uk]

Over the months flecc has sometimes said that a good cyclist doesn't need to use his brakes, and thus doesn't wear them out.

I wondered what others' opinions were on this: driving a car I actually DO follow flecc's line, and can drive quite long distances around north London without braking (except to warn other drivers by feathering the brake pedal), even on an automatic. The weight of the car, plus some engine braking, does the job.

But riding the same hills on my Wisper, I'm darned if I can go down long descents (or even quite short ones) without constantly braking, as the alternative would be very fast and dangerous.

Do Panasonic units have some sort of engine braking?


Allen.

 

[lectureral]

No, they don't Allen - the Bionx does offer braking with the regen facility which I quite like. It depends what the run-out from the hill is like - on one hill in Newcastle I used to get up to 45 mph but at the bottom it transitioned into an upwards hill which bled the speed away easily. If it's not safe to do, though there's no alternative to brakes unless you follow my daughter's lead and drag your feet on the ground - mind you shoes are more expensive than brake blocks.

 

[flecc]

No, they are amongst the most free running Allen.

Obviously it's impossible to avoid all braking, but there's various ways of minimising it. How about a different route with less steep downhills in a certain direction, or with "switchbacks", where the regular little uphill bits burns off the speed of the overall downhill trend (gravity braking)?

Plus all the usual things like good ahead planning to lose speed naturally as you already do in your car, and not using unnecessary speed to get to the next obstruction.
.

 

[Patrick]

Unfortunately my commuter route is a cross between an obstacle course and a roller-coaster, if I want to stay on my bike and not crash into anything else then I have to break on just about every downhill stretch.

Giving up my hard earned momentum was very frustrating on an unassisted bike, but now I can just pull back the throttle and I'm off again as if the driver who had just this second overtaken me hadn't immediately stopped to turn right (I hate it when they do that).

 

[Synthman]

The soles of my shoes don't like me not using the brakes! However, if there's little traffic and I'm not in a hurry, I will coast to a stop and also brake more gently when required. Usually that's not the case and I throttle until the last second and then firmly apply brakes!

The wind has been quite bad again lately and that itself was almost sufficient to stop the bike completely.

 

[indalo]

For many years in my cars, I have practised smooth driving techniques primarily to eke out as many mpg from my tank as possible. I brake far less than many other drivers and there's nothing clever about that. It's largely common sense but one does develop greater awareness and consequently a much greater anticipatory style.

I recently changed discs and pads for the first time on my current car at 62000 miles although the rears still had a few thousand miles on them. The habit has spilled over to my bike riding style and I attempt to minimise the need for battery assistance on my electric bike. As it's a Panasonic type, in the right conditions it's relatively easy to ride unpowered.

With regard to braking, my Gazelle has roller/drum type brakes which are rather weak really for such a heavy bike although they remain consistent regardless of weather. My Dawes, (non-electric) has V-brakes which are very strong and nicely progressive. I also have a couple of heavy old mountain bikes at another address which are equipped with discs. They're pretty good but probably not as reassuring in use as the V-brakes.

Because I have needed to use my electric bike more over the last few weeks, given my remarks about its braking performance, I necessarily ride in such a way as to minimise brake usage and it's surprisingly easy to do so for the most part. Yesterday, I actually managed an indicated 25mph downhill which is the fastest I've ever ridden on it. I did use the brakes at the foot of the hill as there was a red light at a junction and they did pull the speed down okay but I reckon my stopping distance would have been a bit less on my Dawes although, to be fair, it's a much lighter bike.

For the most part, I think it's fairly easy to ride without great resort to brakes but I suppose it depends on the area and traffic conditions. Obviously, if one is poodling along at 10-15 mph, retardation is easy whereas hammering on at 30mph might just need a good yank on the levers at times to stop safely.

I like the fact that the Gazelle (and other similar bikes) has all its gears and brakes internal and they need little in the way of maintenance. Rim brakes and derailleur gears in my experience always seem to require a little tweak from time to time. Those Shimano hub gearboxes are very clever. I wasn't sure I'd like them but I think they're brilliant now I'm used to them.

Indalo

 

[Biged]

I can't ever follow my wife, she brakes all the time, for no reason as i see it.
Me, I've always been a bit of a loon, cars, motorbikes, whatever, my little speedo says i've been 28 mph somewhere recently, i don't remember it?

 

[Streethawk]

Its so hilly here that i have to use my brakes a lot. However, if i lived 20 miles south i'd not use them half as much.

 

[aseb]

Its so hilly here that i have to use my brakes a lot. However, if i lived 20 miles south i'd not use them half as much.

Same here. Hurtling down hills at 35mph+ with bends and cars that just HAVE to pass on 2 lane roads with a wall/trees right next to you or narrow paths where walkers- some with dogs- may step out is easier than going up, but it's safer lowering the speed. And the scenery can be nice too.

 

[Streethawk]

Same here. Hurtling down hills at 35mph+ with bends and cars that just HAVE to pass on 2 lane roads with a wall/trees right next to you or narrow paths where walkers- some with dogs- may step out is easier than going up, but it's safer lowering the speed. And the scenery can be nice too.

That car driver mentality "Its a pushbike, i must pass it, no matter what" nevermind that they need to do 50mph in a 30mph zone to pass me and then slam on the anchors enough to get around the next bend where they can sit at the back of the queue of traffic lights while i sail past them straight to the front.

They underestimate the Aurora too, and often find themselves unable to complete their overtake, instead annoyingly staying alongside and squeezing me until i brake or they do.

 

[allen-uk]

Interesting replies, thanks. But 35 - 45 mph, is this a joke? Going downhill without pedalling I might occasionally get up to 25, but that is more than fast enough for me, given the state of the roads (and the Wisper rear brake).

The other comments that interest me are the way some of you apparently use your throttle to get along - I use mine all the time, but ONLY to get from rest to moving; after that it is pedals alone (except in rare cases like getting to the top of a steep hill and reaching for the throttle for 50 yards on the flat, just to help get my wind back).

Ah well, I suppose that's what it's (the throttle) there for!

Allen.

 

[aseb]

Where's the 45? Mine has been up to 35. mph not kph

(trying to post a pic from my mileage records- it always takes me a few tries!)

 

[lectureral]

I think the 45 mph was mine, aseb - it was a very steep hill near Byker in Newcastle.

 

[aaannndddyyy]

That car driver mentality "Its a pushbike, i must pass it, no matter what" nevermind that they need to do 50mph in a 30mph zone to pass me and then slam on the anchors enough to get around the next bend where they can sit at the back of the queue of traffic lights while i sail past them straight to the front.

They underestimate the Aurora too, and often find themselves unable to complete their overtake, instead annoyingly staying alongside and squeezing me until i brake or they do.

This is a common problem with fast cycling when you are going as fast as the traffic its best to take up a center lane position, it stops all but the most aggressive drivers from squeezing you off the road, plus drivers are more likely to see you before pulling out of the side roads, good brakes a must, I have hydraulic rim on the rear and disk fitted on the front and use them all the time the rear rim brake kills a rim about every 6 mouths.

 

[flecc]

Up to 45 mph downhill for me, and we have a few members of the "over 50 mph club" in the forum.
.

 

[allen-uk]

Up to 45 mph downhill for me, and we have a few members of the "over 50 mph club" in the forum.
.

And we are still talking about pedal cycles (albeit modified to be electric ones) on public roads?

A

 

[flecc]

Oh yes, 50 on normal road bikes, race types in the Tour de France do 60 mph plus downhills, and very ordinary recumbent riders hit up to 75 mph downhills, especially on recumbent trikes.

Here's the 50 mph threads, worth a read.

First

Second
.

 

[allen-uk]

Blimey.

Blimey again.

It must be my innate cowardice/sense of self-preservation/lack of testosterone/etc., but doing 50mph on a pedal cycle strikes me as one of most dangerous things a person could do on UK roads.

Just call me yellow-belly.


A

 

[Streethawk]

Depends, so many factors involved, some bikes will handle and stop just fine from that sort of speed. Others will get very twitchy and be a real handful.

 

[flecc]

Depends, so many factors involved, some bikes will handle and stop just fine from that sort of speed. Others will get very twitchy and be a real handful.

Yes indeed. I was nervous even at 30 mph on my Lafree and the most I ever did on it was 38 mph which was frankly scary.

By contrast, on my Torq 1 and the T-bike I modified it into, 45 mph was no bother on exactly the same downhill and I would have been happy at much more. It was only the broken surfaces at the lower end of the hill which necessitated curtailing the ultimate speed.

There were similar variations even on the unpowered bikes I've owned.
.