Conversion Confusion....I need some help identifying this problem please

[Stephen Murray]

Hi all,

I purchased a front wheel conversion kit earlier this year. I have two main issues in following through with the conversion & I'm hoping I might get some advice here! The kit was second hand and the purchase was intended to give me some insight into assisted cycling and work out if it's something I'd make use of!

Problem 1:- Brakes
The kit I got did not come with brake levers and I ended up purchasing them online, I sent some photos to a seller on eBay who advised me the levers he was selling were compatible with my kit! However when they arrived- they have completely different connections (pics below of both the lever connections and the two spare ports on the control box! - what are they for and how will I make them fit?

Problem 2:- Brakes (Disc or pads?!)
I always intended on using disc brakes with this kit as that what's installed on the bike I intended to use, however it's only after I got the tire off I realised there was no obvious place for the disc brakes on the wheel itself (most kits have some nuts around the core to retrofit the discs?!) Any idea if this kit can be retro fitted with discs , or was it intended to be used for pads only..

With these two issues I've concluded I won't be using my bike as there's a high probability this may not go as smoothly as I intend and I don't want to be without a bike. Plan is to pick up a bike second hand on gumtree asap. What design features should I be wary of with this kind of kit?...besides the obvious brake element!

Looking forward to any assistance anyone might be able to give to any of these issues!
It's my first conversion and i haven't all that much experience with how they operate (just the basics)

Thanks
Stephen

 

[Nealh]

1. The two connectors are;
Black 3 wire pedal assist and white two wire brake cut out.
The brake sensor in the lever uses a Reed sensor/switch and one only needs to fit one brake sensor so fit a rear one. Cut off the connector and either use another connector type or simply solder the wires together. If the brake doesn't function reverse the two wires.
2. The motor is a Direct Drive one, no disc rotor fixings mean it is designed for rim brakes.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

The brake levers you have will be for V/mechanical disc with regard pull ratio so ideally you want a bike with V brakes. You also want strong steel front forks. So a basic rigid steel mountain bike with the right size wheels presumably would be ideal. I'm guessing that is a 26" wheel but you can check on the sidewall of the tyre or maybe on the rim itself. You are looking for '559' as the etrto standard.

The big investment will be the battery and they seem to have gone up in recent times plus you will need a matching charger. Unless you have them already but haven't shown them. I guess the voltage will be either 24, 36 or 48V but in my experience direct drive hubs tend to be mainly 48V with some at 36V but have seen early models that were only 24V. I'm assuming that is 48V so quite an investment in a battery nowadays.

Just a basic high tensile steel mountain bike like this would be ideal.

 

[Stephen Murray]

Guys thank you so much - this has been a great help!

In regards to brakes, I'll focus on getting a bike with good rim brakes and I'll take your advice on the levers! I'm assuming I can set it up with out pedal assist? Is it a big deal?

The battery I purchased online and took a real gamble and got one off eBay second hand. It's 36v /12Ah I think and quite heft designed for a pannier rack! But if it all goes well and I start to rely on this any more then I already rely on cycling, I'll probably upgrade it, but that's not urgent.

It's a 26" wheel and I'll probably go for a mountain bike similar to the one pictured. In my experience the rim brakes tend to be on the older/heavier models - would that be a fair generalisation. Would the battery performance be compromised if the bike was super heavy or would it just be tiny discrepancies... with the battery, the bike, the wheel - I'll end up in a tank if I have to cycle home without power , which is my primary concern now!

really appreciate this input Nealh &Bonzo , thank you!

 

[Bonzo Banana]

Guys thank you so much - this has been a great help!

In regards to brakes, I'll focus on getting a bike with good rim brakes and I'll take your advice on the levers! I'm assuming I can set it up with out pedal assist? Is it a big deal?

The battery I purchased online and took a real gamble and got one off eBay second hand. It's 36v /12Ah I think and quite heft designed for a pannier rack! But if it all goes well and I start to rely on this any more then I already rely on cycling, I'll probably upgrade it, but that's not urgent.

It's a 26" wheel and I'll probably go for a mountain bike similar to the one pictured. In my experience the rim brakes tend to be on the older/heavier models - would that be a fair generalisation. Would the battery performance be compromised if the bike was super heavy or would it just be tiny discrepancies... with the battery, the bike, the wheel - I'll end up in a tank if I have to cycle home without power , which is my primary concern now!

really appreciate this input Nealh &Bonzo , thank you!

Pedal assist is the legal requirement but bikes with twist and go throttles were legal up to 2016. The important legal requirement is the 15.5mph assistance limit. Ebike kits were never part of the legisation from what I understand they were just accepted. You may find your ebike bits don't work with a cadence sensor anyway it may be completely designed around throttle use. It looks to be an older ebike kit and if you bought a secondhand bike that is from 2016 or earlier then I can't see the issue. To be honest I can't see the issue with a later bike to be honest but you never know. However you can bluff its better if stopped by a policeman if you can state your bike is from 2016 or earlier despite being a kit.

I'm not sure how that motor will work with 36V it maybe it is designed for that voltage or maybe it expects 48V and is going to offer much reduced performance and cut out at times on steep hills.

Look at the controller it should have a rating label on it possibly on the other side to the side you have shown. This should state what it expects from the battery with regard voltage and current. Voltage is speed and current is power so if you have 36V and the hub/controller expects 48V you have lost 1/4 of the speed approx. The current is the power/torque so you need to be in the right ballpark. If the controller has a restricted 250W legal mode by connecting two wires I would strongly suggest you enable that at all times to give the battery an easier life if its under-specced for the motor. This should limit current demands. Maybe show pictures here of the battery rating label and controller rating label so we can see the differences.

Bike weight is nothing compared to rider weight. People obsess about bicycle weight but when it comes to ebikes you want a stronger bike to cope with the power of the motor and the additional weight of the ebike components. The hub motor will add some extra stresses on the fork so a thick strong steel fork with dense strong fork droputs is what you want. You may need a torque arm too to add additional strength although a direct drive hub motor using a lower capacity battery in restricted mode is probably in the 15-25Nm torque output area. You may be safe without a torque arm although I think a torque arm is strongly recommended as it secures the wheel to the fork as well reduces the wheel flexing in the fork dropouts.

Best of luck with your build.

 

[saneagle]

You need a bike with STEEL forks for that motor. Controller won't work with a 36v battery if it's a 48v controller. Ask the previous seller what it is. Rim brakes are not good enough for the weight and speed of that motor.

You should have asked the seller why he was selling it. He'd probably say because it's a POS. Don't spend any more money on it. I say chuck it and get a proper one with LCD, pedal sensor, rear motor for disk brake, and a 36v one to suit your battery. Use that motor to make a generator to charge your bike or to power your house when the power cuts come this winter. Maybe the controller has regen, so you can use it as a three phase AC/DC converter.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

It looks like a hub motor wheel that was sold under the Viribus name and that appears to be sold as both 36V and 48V I guess depending on the controller included. The 500W model appears to be 36V and the 1000W appears to be 48V. The controller has nice simple connections and the kit never included a cadence sensor so presumably you are expected to use it with the throttle.

I did see the 48V 1000W expects a battery of 48V 17Ah but not sure what the 36V 500W version requires. However its likely the same hub motor wheel as they typically stay the same its the controller that varies. The 1000W model on the listing I saw was rear wheel only but there may also be a front wheel 1000W option. There was with the voilamart kits.

A lot of info and reviews here;

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ZELUS-1000W-Electric-Bikes-Conversion/dp/B0895LL4T9/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8&th=1&psc=1

Difficult to know which product exactly some of the points are referring too. Also they show an image of a geared hub motor on the page (schematic type) and a ebike converted using a different hub motor as you can see the spoke entry point design is different so another confusing Chinese sales page with lots of errors. They do clearly state the 500W motor is gearless.

 

[Nealh]

H is a PAS connection and the ops motor also has a PAS connection, one can siimply add any PAS sensor.
As D8ve has said it will need steel forks as front hub.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

H is a PAS connection and the ops motor also has a PAS connection, one can siimply add any PAS sensor.
As D8ve has said it will need steel forks as front hub.

I can see the PAS connection but it didn't come with the hardware and I was thinking it was like the voilamart controller where the cadence sensor only gives full power at 1000W so is unusable and very illegal and most rely on the throttle controller as the only usable mode where the power level can be controlled with a speed limit to 15.5mph. Voilamart kits included the cadence sensor but clearly this supplier didn't bother. I'm guessing the controller is similar electronically.