Conversion costs

[RustBuster]

Dear all

I'm hoping that someone knowledgeable will be able to advise.

Roughly what would it cost, to take a non-electric bike (say an old steel rigid mountain bike), and apply a kit to make it an electrically-assisted bike, ideally of sufficient power so that it could achieve 30mph (so it could keep up with traffic on the slowest of roads) ? (Doing the conversion work work oneself).

I appreciate that there may be legal issues around this proposal, but, I would still be interested to know.

In case it helps, I weigh ten stone.

If this section of the forum is not the correct place to post this, apologies, and perhaps someone could move it to a better place ?

Thanks in advance.

Best regards

RustBuster.

 

[matthewslack]

Not wishing to be too discouraging, but there is no right place on this forum for that question. The web in general will give you answers, as will other forums, but the focus here is EN15194, 25kph, 250W.

30mph is so severely beyond the legal boundary, it is not an edge case just about worthy of consideration, it is over the horizon!

 

[flecc]

Dear all

I'm hoping that someone knowledgeable will be able to advise.

Roughly what would it cost, to take a non-electric bike (say an old steel rigid mountain bike), and apply a kit to make it an electrically-assisted bike, ideally of sufficient power so that it could achieve 30mph (so it could keep up with traffic on the slowest of roads) ? (Doing the conversion work work oneself).

I appreciate that there may be legal issues around this proposal, but, I would still be interested to know.

In case it helps, I weigh ten stone.

If this section of the forum is not the correct place to post this, apologies, and perhaps someone could move it to a better place ?

Thanks in advance.

Best regards

RustBuster.

I can't move your post, but we do have a section where you could repost:

Speed Pedelecs General Discussion

Discussions concerning speed pedelecs, motor propulsion beyond 15mph or maximum power outputs above 250w, or e-bikes being used in other countries.

www.pedelecs.co.uk

The USA does have two states where 30mph is permitted, Connecticut and Idaho, and two, Louisiana and Pennsylvania, where 25mph is ok, but I don't know if we have any members in those states who could help you.

The EU also has the 45kph (28mph) S class speed pedelecs, but they are only permitted in three countries there, Germany, The Netherlands and Denmark. They can only be used here in the UK if registered and insured as mopeds and ridden with m/c helmet.
.

 

[saneagle]

Dear all

I'm hoping that someone knowledgeable will be able to advise.

Roughly what would it cost, to take a non-electric bike (say an old steel rigid mountain bike), and apply a kit to make it an electrically-assisted bike, ideally of sufficient power so that it could achieve 30mph (so it could keep up with traffic on the slowest of roads) ? (Doing the conversion work work oneself).

I appreciate that there may be legal issues around this proposal, but, I would still be interested to know.

In case it helps, I weigh ten stone.

If this section of the forum is not the correct place to post this, apologies, and perhaps someone could move it to a better place ?

Thanks in advance.

Best regards

RustBuster.

Battery would be about £300. Motor and controller about £200. Upgrade of cable disc brakes to good hydraulics £60 (used).

Don't even think about it if your bike has rim brakes. you'd need 10 sets of rim brakes on each wheel to get sufficient braking.

You probably need a new set of tyres. Upgrade to the biggest size that will fit.

Riding a bike at 30 mph is terrible without decent suspension at each end.

People think that because they reached 30 mph or even more down a hill once, their bike would be able do drive around at 30 mph. It can't.

It would be cheaper and safer to buy and run a moped if you want 30 mph.

 

[thelarkbox]

Is there no other route than the one that requires such speeds I assume for safety reasons?

 

[Az.]

Piaggio 1: Discover the full range of models | Piaggio UK

Browse the details of the Piaggio 1 and discover our range of models, available colours, dimensions and versions. Book an appointment and configure your scooter.

www.piaggio.com

 

[Peter.Bridge]

I think this idea of "keeping up with traffic" is flawed. Car drivers aren't used to bikes going much faster than 20 mph and will misjudge your speed and do stupid things.

From and insurance / legal standpoint , there's not really any practical legal way of doing it .

From an engineering point of view, something like Bafang BBSHD will give those speeds with the right gearing, but you are constantly going to be replacing chains and cassettes if you are using this for commuting.

Probably a direct drive rear hub, beloved of fast food delivery drivers is the closest to an engineering solution( but they are rubbish on hills)

At least 180 mm hydraulic discs for emergency stops when a stupid car driver pulls out when you are travelling at that speed.

Travelling at 30 mph on a bike uses approx twice as much power as travelling at 25 mph so, even with a big battery the range will be severely limited.

There's been quite a lot of discussion here before, but the search function won't help. Go to the main Google page and search for 30 mph pedelecs.co.uk and you can see previous discussions

 

[Saracen]

Do you want cheap or decent, cogs-y-gogs Wales

Both mine £750 each decent, cheap about £300

 

[MikelBikel]

Ouch! Piaggio = £2250 plus taxes? But a nice silent scoot, won't upset the neighbours, y, thumbs up.

Or, playing devil's advocate, a 50cc scooter for £1650 (if you have a car licence). Same insurance, etc, but no charging.
Euro5, Are you in a low emissions zone?

Sorry if I've gone off the reservation on this one!

 

[MikelBikel]

electric equivalent, £2190 exc OTR, mmm. £250 insurance for a 49yr old he says, whereas an ebike doesn't need any.

 

[portals]

You would need for example a 1500W rear hub/controller/display kit (£300-£350) and 48/52V battery of decent capacity and quality, expect to pay £300-£500 depending on capacity.

This is the kit I got (I paid £300), and the 52V 17.5Ah Hailong battery (£500), I was very pleased with my purchase, the bike is so much fun.
https://www.moddsebikes.co.uk/product/26-48v-1500w-rear-wheel-conversion-kit/

https://www.moddsebikes.co.uk/product/52v-17-5ah-lithium-battery-and-charger-high-quality-cell/

I disagree re rims brakes, cruising at a comfortable 22-24mph they stop me in no time and I've never had any concerns about them or their safety. YMMV.

At least one torque arm is an absolute must though (it can pull a little over 1800W peak according to the KTLCD8 display). I have two torque arms on this bike as have added one on drive side since pics were taken. If you don't you will spin the hub out of the dropouts and crash (as I ably demonstrated when I was testing my build...I was lucky and going slow and noticed nuts were loose)

However 30mph is a different kettle fish as mentioned above, in dry you will feel the bumps and hitting a pothole won't end well, I wouldn't go anything like 24mph in the wet.

You also should install at least one ebrake for safety especially at lights.

Just my 2cents...and some pics of my build (an old Apollo MTB rescued from parents shed after 20yrs shot blasted and resprayed).

 

[saneagle]

electric equivalent, £2190 exc OTR, mmm. £250 insurance for a 49yr old he says, whereas an ebike doesn't need any.

£250 insurance seems ridiculous to me. I pay around £150 for a 700CC bike. Is it high because it's electric?

 

[MikelBikel]

£250 insurance seems ridiculous to me. I pay around £150 for a 700CC bike. Is it high because it's electric?

That 49yr old was a Lexmoto "Cypher".

£2749? Sounds expensive, but "50cc equivalent", 1500w, with real world 20 mile range? Trying too hard, hehe.

He also reckoned a 16yr old would pay £800 to £1200 on their 50cc! Ebikes not so bad after all, haha.

Car insurance IRL is around €4-500 for 60's in the country.

 

[saneagle]

That 49yr old was a Lexmoto "Cypher".

Sounds expensive, but "50cc equivalent".

He also reckoned a 16yr old would pay £800 to £1200 on their 50cc!

Car insurance IRL is around €4-500 for 60's in the country.

I understand high insurance for a 16 yo. It's the £250 for a 49 yo on a 50cc equivalent that I don't get.

 

[Brik]

You would need for example a 1500W rear hub/controller/display kit (£300-£350) and 48/52V battery of decent capacity and quality, expect to pay £300-£500 depending on capacity.
....
I disagree re rims brakes, cruising at a comfortable 22-24mph they stop me in no time and I've never had any concerns about them or their safety. YMMV.

I guess you could easily achieve the op's desire of 30 mph with a 750w mid drive motor, a little more expensive than hub motors but hey, it's only money.
Rim brakes will stop you but they need some adjustment as they wear, also travelling at 30 means they wear fast which results in worn out wheels.

 

[saneagle]

I guess you could easily achieve the op's desire of 30 mph with a 750w mid drive motor,

If you chucked it off a cliff. You need 1500w to keep up with 30mph traffic. I think mid-drive is a poor choice because a bicycle drive train is not designed for that type of power. If you make a mistake shifting, you can wipe out your derailleur or smash your gears. I smashed a 5mm thick solid steel gear just from the torque of the motor when I tried to pull away in top gear. It might be OK for fun bike to show off to your friends but not for a commuter.

 

[Brik]

If you chucked it off a cliff. You need 1500w to keep up with 30mph traffic. I think mid-drive is a poor choice because a bicycle drive train is not designed for that type of power. If you make a mistake shifting, you can wipe out your derailleur or smash your gears. I smashed a 5mm thick solid steel gear just from the torque of the motor when I tried to pull away in top gear. It might be OK for fun bike to show off to your friends but not for a commuter.

I've been commuting with my mid drive for around 18 months now and I'm not sure but I think my friends were more impressed when I drove a v8 Lexus.
I agree, a mid drive does need a degree of mechanical sympathy to get the most out of it.
I disagree that a 750w mid drive won't do well over 30mph with out the aid of gravity.

 

[AntonyC]

Lots of good bike info upthread, and then there's the rider. If road rash at 22mph isn't pretty, at 30mph you've twice the energy to dispose of even without impacts, so really you need better but sweatier gear. What he said:

It would be cheaper and safer to buy and run a moped if you want 30 mph.

 

[saneagle]

I've been commuting with my mid drive for around 18 months now and I'm not sure but I think my friends were more impressed when I drove a v8 Lexus.
I agree, a mid drive does need a degree of mechanical sympathy to get the most out of it.
I disagree that a 750w mid drive won't do well over 30mph with out the aid of gravity.

It won't after you wake up from your dream.

 

[portals]

I think mid-drive is a poor choice because a bicycle drive train is not designed for that type of power. If you make a mistake shifting, you can wipe out your derailleur or smash your gears. I smashed a 5mm thick solid steel gear just from the torque of the motor when I tried to pull away in top gear. It might be OK for fun bike to show off to your friends but not for a commuter.

Before I bought kit/battery I spent a few months researching ebikes and the pros/cons of rear hubs vs mid-drives (I discounted front hubs pretty much straight away as I wanted 1500W and don't think that power would end well through a front wheel with little weight on it that's used for steering...). Loads of posts here and other forums with fanboys of rear vs mid arguing the toss, I read a lot of them.

For me the decision was simple enough re rear hub motor vs mid-drive, as saneagle says they are not designed to have that amount of power through the drive train but the main factor was with my rear hub I don't have to care about my gears anymore apart from selecting the right gear for comfortable pedalling and PAS (usually around mid-gear). The thought of having to constantly be changing gears fills me with dread these days, with rear hub I use PAS a lot and top up with throttle at lights and when ripping lycra idiots ;-) - you don't need gears (or even a chain!).