Convince me to stay electric

[musicbooks]

Sorry Flecc

I'm afraid that long experience of explaining these issues has made me cynical. Just over a day ago I posted in the battery FAQs on "Charging NiMh batteries". That comprehensively covered the issue including of course the associated discharging.

Barely over a day later a thread appeared under the title "Discharging NiMh batteries", and I had to repeat the previously covered details. Both titles appeared adjacent to each other on the forums introduction page, so the first thread was visible at the top when the second query one was entered. I might reasonably have expected someone to glance at that before asking since it was the NiMh charge subject, but no, illustrating what I mean about no matter how hard one tries, nothing ever really works. If the person who posted the query reads this, it's not a criticism, just an observation of what always happens.


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That eejit was me and all I can say is ..it's Friday.., it's been a very very long day.. sincere apologies again, Flecc.. I'll be more vigilant in future..(Interesting that they are called threads though, as I'm often accused of losing it by my wife!)

You have given me invaluable advice on my journey to electric bike liberation and I am very grateful for your time. I'll endeavour not to waste it again... Now, my round I think!

 

[flecc]

Absolutely no need for apology as I said Musicbooks, and please ask whatever you wish to without being considered an "eejit".

After all, your forum name might imply some connection with such an esteemed publication as the New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians, not the territory of any kind of eejit!
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[Branwen]

I am the same age as you, bought an electric bike for all the same reasons you give for having done so. I knew as well that as I have asthma, no matter how fit I got, there would always be days I let the bike do most of the work.

I went down the path of buying a light bike first though. I found the number of days that I just couldnt be bothered got more and more frequent, especially on windy or rainy days. The regular bike ended up left in the shed quite frequently in the end. After getting an electric bike, the difference in knowing the bike would be able to take the effort on days I felt in less that athletic helped me to stay focused on using it as my only means of transport. Unlike the regular bike, I have used my Lafree Twist Lite now for 5 years, winter and summer without once thinking the bus might be a better mode of transport on any given day.

Why dont you try out a demonstrator from a bike shop near you, to feel the difference in the cycle to work?

 

[Brangdon]

It's good of Scott to come into the forum and contribute to the debate. I don't doubt that his main point: that for those customers - probably the vast majority - who don't give their bikes a hard workout, the lithium batteries are absolutely fine.

Would the battery have lasted longer if the bike wasn't derestricted?

 

[Ian]

Would the battery have lasted longer if the bike wasn't derestricted?

If the user was making use of the extra performance available from de-restricting then it could be a factor in reduced battery life as it would increase stress on the battery due to higher current demands, and result in deeper discharges between daily charges, both of which are detrimental to the life of lithium battery types.

 

[frank9755]

All things being equal, on the basis that the battery on a restricted bike would have had a lower average speed therefore it would have been subject to less deep discharge, so would probably have lasted longer.

PS Ian's post (above) beat me to it!

 

[JohnInStockie]

@Branwen - Well done, 5 years impressive.

@ALL - Can I ask if anyone has any concerns about cycling on and around bonfire night (just a bit apprehensive about cycling home in heavy traffic with the prevalence of teenagers setting off fireworks all around me/at me)?

John

 

[flecc]

Never had that problem John, this year especially. Occasionally get fireworks thrown into the front doorways etc, but never troubled on a bike.

Normally by now we've been having fireworks garden events and illicit use from early October, usually continuing until late November.

This year I've yet to hear a single firework, and I can only think the rotten weather has had that effect.

One nearby 20 year old has just got two years for a firework through a letter box, but that was in furtherance of a homophobic objective. Could have put off a few pranksters though.
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[JohnInStockie]

Big difference here Flecc. We can hear them going off every night, and where my mother in law lives in central Manchester you can hear them going off all day and all night.

Tonight my wife saw the police stopping and searching groups of teens, hence my caution. Personally, although I have always loved fireworks, and normally bought some every year for the kids to watch (as I hate those outdoor set displays), my opinion is changing. Too many times now around here are people being attacked with them. And unfortunately I would be in agreement of a ban on them being sold to the public.

John

 

[flecc]

Sorry to hear that John. Our area is usually just a bit like that, but as said, an incredible peacefulness this year, most odd.

There's been a big police and community crackdown on some other aspects of bad youth behaviour in recent months though, so perhaps that's knocked the stuffing out of them for a while. The weather could just be the finishing touch.
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[Ian]

Up until today the fireworks in Leicester have been very quite, quieter than previous years. However Leicester has a very large Indian community and today marks the start of the Diwali celebrations so I can hear fireworks as I type, although not as bad as previous years in spite of it having stopped raining. There is a small danger to pedestrians and cyclists from falling rockets, nothing that would stop me going out though.

 

[aroncox]

Well I consulted my meagre bank account, bit the bullet and bought a new NiMH battery and charger, which will take a few weeks to be off back order I expect. I asked 50Cycles if I could at least swap a Lithium charger for a NiMH one, but no reply.

Wish me luck with the lifetime of this battery, and a bike that works properly for a long period from now!

Thanks for all your help,

Aron.

 

[HarryB]

Well I consulted my meagre bank account, bit the bullet and bought a new NiMH battery and charger, which will take a few weeks to be off back order I expect. I asked 50Cycles if I could at least swap a Lithium charger for a NiMH one, but no reply.

Wish me luck with the lifetime of this battery, and a bike that works properly for a long period from now!

Thanks for all your help,

Aron.

Did you try and get two chargers? Would have thought that they would give you the second for £50. Will you let us know when stocks come in as it is useful to know (I might go for one if the cutting out gets much worse in the cold weather).

 

[frank9755]

Will you need two chargers with an NiMH? Remember you are trying to discharge it more deeply than the lithium.
For what its worth my Powacycle and Powabyke both easily manage my slightly longer commute (12 miles) both ways on a single charge

Frank

 

[HarryB]

Will you need two chargers with an NiMH? Remember you are trying to discharge it more deeply than the lithium.
For what its worth my Powacycle and Powabyke both easily manage my slightly longer commute (12 miles) both ways on a single charge

Frank

Yes I thought this and it would probably be true for the first year but maybe not for the second year and beyond (being a de-restricted Torq).

 

[flecc]

It may not even quite scrape it in year one Harry, the NiMh ones being 9 Ah instead of the 10 Ah of the Li-ions.
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[aroncox]

You're right, I think I will try the first week with only a nightly charge charge and see how it goes. As Harry says I will probably need one in the future, maybe by then someone will have discivered one that automatically discharges the battery when needed.

Will you need two chargers with an NiMH? Remember you are trying to discharge it more deeply than the lithium.
For what its worth my Powacycle and Powabyke both easily manage my slightly longer commute (12 miles) both ways on a single charge

Frank

 

[flecc]

You're right, I think I will try the first week with only a nightly charge charge and see how it goes. As Harry says I will probably need one in the future, maybe by then someone will have discivered one that automatically discharges the battery when needed.

I'm researching that now Aron. I previously found a suitable one for the Twist at not much more than a third of the makers one, but such price miracles look unlikely this time.

Around the same price for a better charger with auto discharge seems possible.

More in due course.
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[HarryB]

You're right, I think I will try the first week with only a nightly charge charge and see how it goes. As Harry says I will probably need one in the future, maybe by then someone will have discivered one that automatically discharges the battery when needed.

Flecc previously mentioned that you could use the Li-ion charger to top up but you would have to be careful not to overcharge (use with a timer?). A bit risky but might tide you over 'till a new discharge charger comes along.

 

[flecc]

I've since ascertained that the Li-ion charger cannot overcharge the NiMh battery, so it's safe to use. Unfortunately it can't fully charge NiMh either, so as Harry says, only as a top up to keep rolling.
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