Cycle Road Rage - Camera Evidence!

kitchenman

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 9, 2010
1,309
7
Aberaeron, West Wales

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,843
30,399
I'm often a bit critical of such camera evidence which can be misleading, but this is clearly a blatant case of the worst form of car driver road rage. This driver isn't just a menace to cyclists, he is a menace on the road.

Its strange how a vehicle, any vehicle, can bring out this sort of behaviour in people who wouldn't dream of acting this way when walking amongst others.

I don't think it too extreme to advocate a loss of driving licence for a very substantial period for these offences. After all, in the worst case, Kenneth Noye who has just lost a further appeal, stabbed to death the person he raged at, showing just how dangerous such people can become.
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DBCohen

Pedelecer
May 2, 2007
155
0
Manchester
I would observe that I find it incredible that Plod can't track the guy down, given that his car was caught on camera. Are there NO shots of the number plate as the guy drives away?
 

Mussels

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 17, 2008
3,207
8
Crowborough
I'm considering getting one soon for a few reasons, one was witnessing an accident yesterday where a van turned left into a petrol station and took a cyclist with him. If that had resulted in more than an adrenaline rush then I may have been asked to be a witness, my problem would be that I wasn't paying attention immediately before and it could have been 50/50 the cyclists fault.
Another time recently I got in an argument with a driver about me not slowing down to allow him to turn left, afterwards I wasn't 100% about the events immediately preceding the incident so it would have been nice to review it and see if I did make a mistake.
More often recently I've had people overtaking me and making an immediate left turn so I can see a real need for evidence soon. :(
 

morphix

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2010
2,163
119
Worcestershire
www.cyclecharge.org.uk
Terrible..must of been quite frightening experience for the cyclist.. You do find that some motorists with attitudes like that seem to think they own the road and have some kind of priority over cyclists. I had one experience myself recently with an impatient motorist who sounded his horn at me hard to get out of the way, and mouthed off inside his car but i couldn't hear him and just ignored him. I sometimes get the odd annoying boy racer person who hasn't quite grown up yet speeding and purposely zooming a few inches away from me which is incredibly dangerous and stupid..but on the whole I find most motorists courteous, always leaving me space and letting me go first. Likewise I'm the same to them, trying not to hold them up and keeping close to the curb as I can and signalling them to over take etc. It's always a few who can't show consideration who spoil it for the rest and as flecc said they shouldn't be on the road if they can't behave like adults.

I will just say also, since I started wearing my high vis jacket and my visible camera on the shoulder, I feel a lot safer and I've noticed drivers seem to be a lot more cautious around me.. whether it's just the visible jacket or the fact they are being filmed, not sure..
 
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kitchenman

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 9, 2010
1,309
7
Aberaeron, West Wales
I suspect that you know this already but Morphix and I are experimenting as I'm sure others have done in the past .. and will continue to in the future ... I have put in a request to Russ to create a review sub-forum like we have for ELectric Bikes .. I'm working on a template and would appreciate any input to make sure I get it right! ... I think I have probably put too much in it!
I'll create a new thread so it can be reviewed and refined and then we can try to get Russ to publish it!
 

morphix

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2010
2,163
119
Worcestershire
www.cyclecharge.org.uk
I suspect that you know this already but Morphix and I are experimenting as I'm sure others have done in the past .. and will continue to in the future ... I have put in a request to Russ to create a review sub-forum like we have for ELectric Bikes .. I'm working on a template and would appreciate any input to make sure I get it right! ... I think I have probably put too much in it!
I'll create a new thread so it can be reviewed and refined and then we can try to get Russ to publish it!
I noticed your good work Alan with the template and left a comment on the camera shake solution thread.. not sure if you saw it yet.. I think it will be great to have a separate camera sub-forum, cuz like yourself I'm really into the cameras and enjoy filming my rides.. As you said before, there's a big safety benefit to having the camera rolling on the road but it's also great to see other peoples videos.
 

kitchenman

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 9, 2010
1,309
7
Aberaeron, West Wales
... trying not to hold them up and keeping close to the curb as I can and signalling them to over take etc. I
Be careful doing this. I did exactly this in a quiet country lane and I ended up in the hedge! ...and on another ocassion I pick up a puncture! (the nearer the curb the more likely to find screws, nails and other sharp objects .. not sure what the highway code says but I suspect that we should be cycling a consistant distance from the curb. 1m or 1.5 m ? something like that? ... Now, if I am going to let a vehicle pass me I will give them the bird arm to show that I am slowing down and stopping. Look at the vehicle behind and ensure that it can pass. If not, then I will get off the bike and move out the way. Next time this happens hopefully it will be captured on video and I can show you how its done! ... :)
 

morphix

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2010
2,163
119
Worcestershire
www.cyclecharge.org.uk
Be careful doing this. I did exactly this in a quiet country lane and I ended up in the hedge! ...and on another ocassion I pick up a puncture! (the nearer the curb the more likely to find screws, nails and other sharp objects .. not sure what the highway code says but I suspect that we should be cycling a consistant distance from the curb. 1m or 1.5 m ? something like that? ... Now, if I am going to let a vehicle pass me I will give them the bird arm to show that I am slowing down and stopping. Look at the vehicle behind and ensure that it can pass. If not, then I will get off the bike and move out the way. Next time this happens hopefully it will be captured on video and I can show you how its done! ... :)
You're right, the cycling lanes marked on the roads I find are the worse part of the road on many stretches and badly in need of repair..loose bits of tarmac all over the place, pot holes and broken glass plentiful :-/ What I normally do is stay about 1 meter away from curb but if I sense a car is behind me or approaching I will go in closer to let it past if theres no way to overtake, then come back out again after checking behind me of course.. I really should get a mirror I think.
 

kitchenman

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 9, 2010
1,309
7
Aberaeron, West Wales
what if its a tractor with those sharp forky things on the front? or a police car, or an ambulance, or a Eddie Stobart truck? ...
 

steveindenmark

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 10, 2011
406
2
It is a good I wasn`t the bike rider because that driver would have been laying on the floor waiting for the police to arrive.

I am not one to start a ruck but I am well capable of finishing one. I don`t mind being abused verbally if I am on a bike, motorbike or in the car. I just ignore it.

But if someone squeezed me and the bike up against a rail and then got out and got hold of me it would be no more Mr Nice Guy I am afraid.

Steve
 

tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
5,249
3,197
As much as it pains me to say so, it is nearly always better to back off in these situations. Put your brakes on and let the car past, try to pull out of the way, anything to avoid potential contact with the car.

As for remonstrating with the driver, again my approach is to avoid it.

I realise that we should not have to do this, but unfortunately, as we know, there are quite a few maniacs out there and their numbers are growing. The chances are, you will come across one of them someday and you simply don't know what they are going to arm themselves with. If they arm themselves with a foul mouth or fists you might be able to get the better of them. If they arm with a wheel brace, iron bar or knife, you are going to look a bit second hand by the time they have finished with you and in my view it isn't worth the risk.

It takes a lot of effort for me to resist saying or doing something if a car driver puts me in danger, but the annoyance factor soon subsides and by the time I arrive home, in one piece, I have usually forgotten all about it.

As for that worthless bullying lump of lard driving the BMW. If he is caught, he needs hurting and hurting badly. People like him only understand pain and violence. He needs to experience a violent episode that will mentally scare him for the rest of his life. Only then will he think about the effect of his actions on innocent and undeserving people. Not a very attractive solution, but I'm afraid that's where we are.
 

morphix

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2010
2,163
119
Worcestershire
www.cyclecharge.org.uk
Good post tillson, I don't think anyone could put it better. I agree with what you say about avoiding a physical confrontation just because you don't know what someone is carrying on them or has in their car. Or their mental state of mind for that matter. We also have to remember a car is a lethal weapon itself when there's a maniac behind the wheel. This is why having a camera is a good idea, you can just film their behaviour and number plate and report it to police.
 

z0mb13e

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 28, 2009
578
3
Dorset
Wow. That's quite a reaction from the chap in BMW. Like flecc I'm skeptical and not sure the clip shows the full story. I could be wrong but from what little footage there is, the rider looks to be very far out from the curb for no obvious reason, that is certain to annoy any car driver.

Whatever the circumstances there was no excuse for forcing the cyclist over to the curb like that.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,843
30,399
Or for the face to face confrontation. That's threatening behaviour, rightly an offence in law. There's no place for bullies and thugs in a civilised society.
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Barnowl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 18, 2008
954
1
Indeed. Road rage is a flattering and nonsensical term. This thug has issues and shouldn't be driving around in a powerful car. His response is abnormal.

If caught he should be condemned to public transport.

Worryingly I'm sure there is a vitriolic anti cycling mentality about on the road. Much of it is based on ignorance - as in: law breaking, non tax paying, no insurance, idiot, tree hugging, lemmings - just a few of the accusations and sweeping generalisations I've come across..
 
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eTim

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 19, 2009
607
2
Andover, Hants.
Or for the face to face confrontation. That's threatening behaviour, rightly an offence in law. There's no place for bullies and thugs in a civilised society.
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Quite correct and it's also within the law to defend yourself when threatened, I'm afraid a driver getting that close to me would have ended up with a broken nose before he had got any more abusive words out of his stupid mouth !
 

indalo

Banned
Sep 13, 2009
1,380
1
Herts & Spain
It seems to me that riding with a camera attached isn't really the answer to the problem. There isn't much point if, as in this case, the police are seeking assistance in tracking down the car driver.

Although there has been at least one successful prosecution recently based on video footage, I suspect there will be many other occasions where the police or CPS may determine that the video footage obtained is evidentially insufficient to justify prosecution. An assailant might very well remove and/or destroy a camera anyway....especially if one tells the other party he is being filmed!

The camera can hardly be objective as it only reveals some of the story so I'd expect challenges from defence lawyers if their use in such a manner proliferates.

Confrontation with a cretin like the one shown in the clip could be quite enjoyable if you're confident in your own ability to knock the sh.....sorry,...to defend yourself! Unfortunately, there are those like Kenneth Noye who aren't very good with their fists so they will just stab you.

The answer? I really don't know but I shan't be attaching a camera to my bike or my person. I guess I'll just have to take my chances in the same way as I do by not wearing a helmet.

Indalo