Cycling safer in Spain?

[Woosh]

I heard a few days back that two of my customers were ploughed into on their bikes by a youngster in a hot hatch going well over the speed limit (although not drunk). Obviously he is facing charges.
Despite both bikes ending up under the car their riders amazingly survived (although with some injuries) and will be taking up cycling again soon.

Another customer recently told me that cycling is so much safer in Spain, which is why she far prefers to use her e bike there than here. Firstly, apparently, when any accident occurs between a bike and a car (or other vehicle) the cyclist is automatically in the clear, the motorist automatically 'guilty'.

It is also the law in Spain, punishable by a hefty fine apparently, that you must leave a minimum berth of 1.5 metres when overtaking any cyclist in your car/lorry/van.

Food for thought. Stay safe everyone.

Hatti

 

[catsnapper]

The overall road accident rate in Spain is very high, especially at weekends and holidays.

Wednesday lunchtime we crossed central Paris in a cab with a driver that showed plenty of consideration for the many bikes around(not suggesting this is typical!). Chiwah might like to comment
Yesterday morning the cab driver in Barcelona had his foot on the floor, driving within an inch of everything, including touching a cyclist and a scooter with his wing mirrors. Again, not saying this is typical.

My son lives and works in Barcelona and is an avid cyclist. He doesn't have any problems(except having bikes stolen!), but he uses back routes and there are specific areas that most cyclists avoid.
Barcelona is generally pro-bike with decent facilities and I'm quite happy cycling here.

Madrid is much less cycle friendly, although improving. No doubt various areas of the country are both good and bad, many people are quite happy meandering around some of the well known resorts but I wouldn't depend on specific rules and laws being observed or applied.

I cycle most days around our home town of Maldon and never fail to be surprised by the overall level of courtesy of drivers, with many opting for almost excessive caution, but I wouldn't regard this as typical of the UK!

Alan

 

[flecc]

It is also the law in Spain, punishable by a hefty fine apparently, that you must leave a minimum berth of 1.5 metres when overtaking any cyclist in your car/lorry/van.

Hatti

Sorry to hear of their accident Hatti, I hope they heal quickly.

Our Highway Code has similar strictures for drivers when overtaking bicycles, which while not law can greatly influence any court judgement:

Rule 163:

give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse
riders at least as much room as you
would when overtaking a car

Rule 212:

When passing motorcyclists and
cyclists, give them plenty of room (see
Rules 162-167). If they look over their
shoulder it could mean that they intend
to pull out, turn right or change
direction

 

[averhamdave]

I would concur with the original poster. We spend quite a bit of time in Spain and can say that cyclists are generally treated with far more respect than in Britain.

In France and Germany, where we are now, not only are cyclists treated with respect - because most of them are cyclists themselves- but there are cycle paths everywhere.

 

[funkylyn]

Hatti, I do hope your customers are feeling much better soon.

As you know, I lived in Spain for 15 years and from my experience it certainly is not safer to cycle there, despite their obsession with 'non assisted' cycling.

What we need to remember is that, especially in southern european countries, no matter what the law might state they do as they please anyway.
Although their driving test is extremely drawn out and comprehensive, the norm is that as soon as they get their licences they seem to have a brain transplant as well.

The accident rate is very high in Spain, though I have to say that they arent as bad as the Portugese....in my opinion.

Whilst I lived there I would never have dreamt of cycling on any main road and chose to drive to some of their amazingly good Via Verdes to enjoy my cycling.

Another factor is that, especially in more rural areas, there is still a high percentage of drink driving, the local police choose an evening to do spot checks, same place, same time, and the locals generally just avoid them.....simples, as far as they are concerned, they really are a law unto themselves.

I appreciate that in larger towns it is not quite so lax.

It kind of depends where you are, some cities are really pro cyclists, but please dont ever think that just because you are in a more rural area that you are safer.....that is not necessarily so.

Lynda

 

[flecc]

The accident rate is very high in Spain, though I have to say that they arent as bad as the Portugese....in my opinion.

Your opinion is fact Lynda, Portugal for long had the worst accident record in Europe and sometimes in the world. Under pressure from the EU they have been making huge efforts at improvement but things are still relatively bad.

Back in 2001 their typical road death rate was four times that of the UK, currently it's 70% higher so greatly improved but a long way to go.

 

[Woosh]

I've only ever cycled in France, generally OK although I was in a quietish area (don't know what Place de la Concorde in Paris would be like, my stepdad drove round it 50 years ago and it took him an hour to get off!) Have never cycled in Spain or any other country in fact.

Interesting to get such different views.

BTW Lynda, Project Court Barton needs an update don't you think? Could be next weekend, would you be around?

 

[funkylyn]

BTW Lynda, Project Court Barton needs an update don't you think? Could be next weekend, would you be around?

I will PM you hatti with my plans for next weekend.....I think you will be amazed lol

I am dying to say but must be patient and wait for confirmation, but all things being well, I will be there saturday but wont be there sunday.

Lynda

 

[averhamdave]

Your opinion is fact Lynda, Portugal for long had the worst accident record in Europe and sometimes in the world. Under pressure from the EU they have been making huge efforts at improvement but things are still relatively bad.

Back in 2001 their typical road death rate was four times that of the UK, currently it's 70% higher so greatly improved but a long way to go.

Just back from a short tour of Europe where for most of the time haven't had Internet access - which has its benefits as well as downsides!

Wherever may be safer is a subjective argument but because one country may have a higher road accident rate than another doesn't follow that it's more dangerous for cyclists.

As has been mentioned, cyclist safety is also relative to the area you are cycling in.

For me cycling in the uk is more scary than anywhere else I have been. This is mainly due to the general lack of cycle tracks / main road hard shoulders than anything else.

Having spent much of the last seven winters in Spain and cycled hundreds of miles there, I take issue with the generalised claim tHat it is a more dangerous place for cyclists than anywhere other than Portugal. It is simply not true. There are wide "hard shoulders" on most of their roads and there is more of a respect for cyclists than some have given the impression of. It is a serious cycling country and cycles and cycle sport are taken very seriously there.

As I say it's all subjective and these are just my views having had the good fortune to cycle in a good many countries.

 

[funkylyn]

All I can say, as far as Spain is concerned, is that I am pleased you have been lucky.

The area I lived in certainly didnt have wide hard shoulders and in general showed no respect for cyclists at all......unless of course it was a large group of Lycras,they take that type and group of cyclists very seriously indeed and kind of have to show respect as they usually take up most of the road, but a single cyclist ?....forget it.....in my experience and my area anyway.

I find that if a general populace show no respect for moped riders on the road, then cyclists have no chance, and believe me in 15 years in our small town, I have been horrified at the number of moped deaths caused in the town, not by speed but by careless car drivers......and, I must admit, lack of helmets.

Mind you, I speak as someone who tries and prefers to always cycle on traffic free paths and I fully take your point that cycling is dangerous on UK roads.....on any countries roads I think.

Lynda

 

[Streethawk]

My girlfriend is Greek, and due to the insanity of the driving there she never even learnt to ride a bike until she moved to the UK to live. She seems to think we're the most considerate drivers she's ever seen.

 

[flecc]

My girlfriend is Greek, and due to the insanity of the driving there she never even learnt to ride a bike until she moved to the UK to live. She seems to think we're the most considerate drivers she's ever seen.

I think British drivers are on the whole very considerate, and our extremely low accident injury and death rates bear that out. Most countries can only dream of such a safe roads environment.

 

[melspea]

Living, as I do, for most of each year in Spain and cycling most days, anybody who believes that Spanish drivers are courteous and have great regard for cyclists is deluded.

I have driven over and cycled in much of europe and can say categorically that the Iberian peninsula is the area I fear most. Forget the French and Italians who just always drive too fast, the mindset of motorists in Spain and Portugal means you are far more likely to be involved in an RTA there than elsewhere. On Sundays, motorcyclists seem to imagine that they have special priority, especially around mountainous terrain with chicanes and switchbacks.

As for cyclists, they are simply viewed as nuisance obstructions and both local and national police have little sympathy, seeming to hold the view that anyone who cycles on busy roads is 'loco' and deserves anything they get as a result. Until those attitudes are changed, Iberia will continue to be a very dangerous place to cycle.

European legislators need to adopt some EC-wide regulations based on the Danish/Dutch/German attitude to cycling and enshrine it in law so that cyclists are ENTITLED to certain priorities and protection. Motorists would need to learn and understand they are OBLIGED under the law to respect the rights of cyclists to the extent that ANY accident involving a bicycle and a motor vehicle will AUTOMATICALLY be assumed to be the fault of the motorist unless extraordinary, extenuating circumstances can prove otherwise.

Our children and grandchildren should be able to cycle on roads as soon as they are proficient without fear and until attitudes are changed, cyclists will continue to die because driver-killers treat cyclists with disdain and impunity.

Melissa