Just seen this link to a UK firm offering Cyclone powered bikes. No specific products on show yet but a disclaimer saying that most of their offerings exceed the 25kph limit & are for off road use only. Also noticed that Sustain Cycles are back in business again.
Cyclone Bikes in the UK
- Thread starter homemoz
- Start date
These Cyclone bikes have been here before quite some while ago and were disappointing. Our administrator Russell Scott owned one for a while and was very unimpressed.
As for that monster front hub motor bike, probably a direct drive, it's like something from history compared with today's unobtrusive Nano and Bafang motors.
The Sustain bikes are the Synergie bikes of course, and their return coincides with those becoming available again after the absence of some models.
.
As for that monster front hub motor bike, probably a direct drive, it's like something from history compared with today's unobtrusive Nano and Bafang motors.
The Sustain bikes are the Synergie bikes of course, and their return coincides with those becoming available again after the absence of some models.
.
Sustain Cycles - new model released 8th Dec'08
Yes I can confirm we do stock Synergie brand electric bikes.
We will be adding a new model to our range next week. More details to appear on our website shortly. Sustain Cycles - affordable electric bikes - folding and mountain bikes.
Dave.
Yes I can confirm we do stock Synergie brand electric bikes.
We will be adding a new model to our range next week. More details to appear on our website shortly. Sustain Cycles - affordable electric bikes - folding and mountain bikes.
Dave.
Cyclone test ride
Cyclone kit is an interesting option. The key question is what do you expect from your e-bike. Look at the Cyclone home page (Electric bicycle DIY kits kit NuVinci Electric Scooter e-bike Electric bicycle DIY kits kit NuVinci Electric Scooter e-bike Electric bicycle DIY kits kit NuVinci Electric Scooter e-bike Electric bicycle DIY kits kit NuVinci Electric Scooter e-bike El) – these bikes go upstairs! This trick may not be attainable for motor hubs because of their lower torque or may require stronger and heavier motors.
I tested Dahon with Cyclone kit (360W, 24V). Weight ~22kg, still foldable.
Cyclone kit uses standard chain and existing gears (only rear gears – this kit accepts only one chainring). You may change gears - like in a standard bike, motorcycle or a car with manual gearbox. It gives a lot of fun or is onerous – depending on personal preferences (just like in cars).
Cyclone motor (at the 1st or 2nd gear car equivalent) can effectively help climbing AND offers good acceleration. It can also be fast at other gears (in motor hub systems you probably may have either climbing ability OR fast riding).
Dahon Cyclone was equipped with off-road tires. Maximum motor speed ~30 km/h, with rider’s assistance ~35 km/h. The owner declares the range of ~18km (just motor working, maximum speed, no stops).
Cyclone motor is not loud but you can hear it working. Actually it is a chain to produce noise, not the motor. Pedals are not symmetrical, Cyclone delivers longer spindle, the left pedal is moved ~30mm away in order to give some space for the motor. This change is not onerous – at least during short rides.
One important disadvantage of Cyclone system is the increase of the chain rolling resistance. I had an impression that the effort I made to ride fast results in ~25 km/h in my bike (also Dahon) and only in ~16 km/h in Dahon Cyclone (no electricity). Therefore using the bike without electric assistance may be a problem.
Bigger chain rolling resistance may be my impression only. But it can be measured with ease. If my diagnosis is correct – it will mean that the Cyclone kit is underdeveloped.
Other electric kit makers offer chain drive systems which probably do not increase the chain rolling resistance – eg. eLation (http://www.elationebikes.com.au/) or Epac (http://www.epacpower.com.au/Epac_Home.html).
Cyclone kit is an interesting option. The key question is what do you expect from your e-bike. Look at the Cyclone home page (Electric bicycle DIY kits kit NuVinci Electric Scooter e-bike Electric bicycle DIY kits kit NuVinci Electric Scooter e-bike Electric bicycle DIY kits kit NuVinci Electric Scooter e-bike Electric bicycle DIY kits kit NuVinci Electric Scooter e-bike El) – these bikes go upstairs! This trick may not be attainable for motor hubs because of their lower torque or may require stronger and heavier motors.
I tested Dahon with Cyclone kit (360W, 24V). Weight ~22kg, still foldable.
Cyclone kit uses standard chain and existing gears (only rear gears – this kit accepts only one chainring). You may change gears - like in a standard bike, motorcycle or a car with manual gearbox. It gives a lot of fun or is onerous – depending on personal preferences (just like in cars).
Cyclone motor (at the 1st or 2nd gear car equivalent) can effectively help climbing AND offers good acceleration. It can also be fast at other gears (in motor hub systems you probably may have either climbing ability OR fast riding).
Dahon Cyclone was equipped with off-road tires. Maximum motor speed ~30 km/h, with rider’s assistance ~35 km/h. The owner declares the range of ~18km (just motor working, maximum speed, no stops).
Cyclone motor is not loud but you can hear it working. Actually it is a chain to produce noise, not the motor. Pedals are not symmetrical, Cyclone delivers longer spindle, the left pedal is moved ~30mm away in order to give some space for the motor. This change is not onerous – at least during short rides.
One important disadvantage of Cyclone system is the increase of the chain rolling resistance. I had an impression that the effort I made to ride fast results in ~25 km/h in my bike (also Dahon) and only in ~16 km/h in Dahon Cyclone (no electricity). Therefore using the bike without electric assistance may be a problem.
Bigger chain rolling resistance may be my impression only. But it can be measured with ease. If my diagnosis is correct – it will mean that the Cyclone kit is underdeveloped.
Other electric kit makers offer chain drive systems which probably do not increase the chain rolling resistance – eg. eLation (http://www.elationebikes.com.au/) or Epac (http://www.epacpower.com.au/Epac_Home.html).
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my first e-bike i had was a synergie vivace....or was it a edison...i really loved it to bits,ok it had gearing too low for speed and it was so comfy you bounced about like a baby bouncer....which i dare say some technical boffin will say is energy inneficient as energy not being used directly to the pedal...or something similar...i am correct in saying they are one and the same bike, but could never figure out why one is sold on e-bay for £150 less....doesnt seem very competative...or have i missed something ?
I quite like the idea of this type of kit but the fixed size chainwheel bothers me, if the motors efficient speed doesn't match my preferred cadence then we will never work well together.
I understand your point. Cyclone kit is underdeveloped.I quite like the idea of this type of kit but the fixed size chainwheel bothers me, if the motors efficient speed doesn't match my preferred cadence then we will never work well together.
Look at eLation or Bike-Elektro-Antrieb. These systems are adaptable to front gears and should work effectively in mountain bikes (pictures from producers’ web sites).
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Love it. The sales blurb contains the classic line "...without a single piece of peddling".
Nick
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so if its got pedelec mode where you have to be moving befor it kicks in all you have to do is get a nearby pedestrian to give you a push...
Gentlemen, without prejudice.
Boby,
Looking at the eLation you reference, it does appear that it is using a Cyclone motor or a close cousin and in a similar position to that shown on the Cyclone site.
The epacpower motor shows a fair similarity to that used on the Izipi (Currie) which is a brushed motor without a built in freewheel and at 5 kg it is heavier.
Another site that appears to use the same motor and has an English section is www.
bike-elektro-antrieb.ch/
but I found it more informative to copy the address to Google and go for the Translate this page option.
Tiberious,
Quote:
"without a single bit of pedalling"
And that is exactly how my Cyclone gets me home when I run out of steam on the Peer Gynt recumbent.
The Panasonic motor is encumbered with a system that tapers off the assistance from max at 9.5mph to zero at 15.5 mph as most ably described by flecc. This is a major drawback and at the same time the main reason for the excellent mileage per charge.
Cyclone offer a comparatively crude crank motion sensor and speed limiting accessory as an expensive extra. I imagine it is made available for those places where they are a legal requirement.
The Cyclone continues to provide torque to the limit of its speed and power rating whatever gear it is in.
As Boby mentioned the gear and throttle bit need not suit everyone and my problem is my need for gentle exercise. Change gear and by the time I fiddle with the throttle to find a balance between my comfortable effort and that of the motor it is past time to change gear again and again. However the wind whipped the lable off my motor, I'll need to get a new one; I'm sure it said 150W.
So for around town the Panasonic powered Gitane with it's Automatic Gearchange wins hand down for me.
Dave
Boby,
Looking at the eLation you reference, it does appear that it is using a Cyclone motor or a close cousin and in a similar position to that shown on the Cyclone site.
The epacpower motor shows a fair similarity to that used on the Izipi (Currie) which is a brushed motor without a built in freewheel and at 5 kg it is heavier.
Another site that appears to use the same motor and has an English section is www.
bike-elektro-antrieb.ch/
but I found it more informative to copy the address to Google and go for the Translate this page option.
Tiberious,
Quote:
"without a single bit of pedalling"
And that is exactly how my Cyclone gets me home when I run out of steam on the Peer Gynt recumbent.
The Panasonic motor is encumbered with a system that tapers off the assistance from max at 9.5mph to zero at 15.5 mph as most ably described by flecc. This is a major drawback and at the same time the main reason for the excellent mileage per charge.
Cyclone offer a comparatively crude crank motion sensor and speed limiting accessory as an expensive extra. I imagine it is made available for those places where they are a legal requirement.
The Cyclone continues to provide torque to the limit of its speed and power rating whatever gear it is in.
As Boby mentioned the gear and throttle bit need not suit everyone and my problem is my need for gentle exercise. Change gear and by the time I fiddle with the throttle to find a balance between my comfortable effort and that of the motor it is past time to change gear again and again. However the wind whipped the lable off my motor, I'll need to get a new one; I'm sure it said 150W.
So for around town the Panasonic powered Gitane with it's Automatic Gearchange wins hand down for me.
Dave
For this reason Cyclone kit can be an inefficient assistant for a mountain bike. Cyclone kit has just 8 (max) gears. On the other hand – you may experiment with a complex internal gear hub.I quite like the idea of this type of kit but the fixed size chainwheel bothers me, if the motors efficient speed doesn't match my preferred cadence then we will never work well together.
Dave – you are right. eLation and Bike Elektro Antrieb are very similar to Cyclone kit. But Cyclone did not patent it (probably it would not be possible). Cyclone is just widely known. eLation is better made (esp. its chainring does not look as found in a waste container) and does not limit the number of gears, the Swiss one is very similar to eLation (eLation owner said it was just a rude copy of patented eLation: http://visforvoltage.org/forum/bicycles-and-pedelecs/1379).
I am sure that there are more kits based on this idea – we just do not know about them. Most of them are not commercialized in the Western World.
I read market forecasts saying that the expected sales of e-bikes in China in 2008 was 16-20 million and the sales of e-bikes in Europe in 2007 was 250k. The size of European market is max 1.5% of the Far East one. After reading about it I realized that Chinese manufacturers could ignore European customers in the B2C sector. There is no money for them here (they are not aware of prices for their stuff here but in terms of quantity they are right).
Sometimes I have an impression that we face the primary stage of the LEV industry development – similar to the development stage of car industry 100 years ago. 100 years ago drivers were buying petrol in pharmacies. In order to have a car you bought the motor and frame and a body separately (like electric kit now).
We discuss many chain drive systems, please look at it: http://www.caticgz.com/ProTemplate2.php?fdSortid=AAAOAAAA
I find it more elegant that everything the Western producer could offer (it still looks heavy – but it is their beginning). Of course – it is not a kit. It requires a special frame design. In order to have a car you do not buy a BMW motor+suspension and Alfa Romeo body. It would be ridiculous. The same would probably quickly happen in the e-bike sector.
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Sorry couldn't find the linked document.
In contrast to the above I quite like the current e-bike situation of getting one part from one place and one part from another.
You see, in contrast to the motor world, bike parts are largely standardised.
You CAN get different parts from different manufacturers to produce the best bike for your performance+price requirements. This is similar to the computer world where before the IBM PC became the ubiquitous model, personal computers were almost bespoke and hence very expensive. Now with the PC standard parts are cheap and so are fully built computers. Even Apple Macs are now based on PC components!
Standardisation brings much lower costs, and allows the manufacturers to concentrate on things they are best at e.g. hub motor manufacturers should not have to worry about frames and brakes.
If we went down the motor industry route, every e-bike would need it's own different wheels, brakes, etc. etc. In fact I'd love to see the open source car (yes there is such a project!) come to fruition. Encouraging reuse of key design components would encourage recycling/reuse of old components and parts. I'm sure many people have kept old bikes going for many years, or canabalised old bikes for parts to put on newer ones. This sort of thing is much harder to do in the motor world, which means that most cars end up as wasteful scrap metal.
Maybe what's required is an evolution/revision in the bike "standards" to produce frames with the relevant brackets and holders to house the extra parts that an e-bike might require in a nice way.
As for the Chinese market vs the Western one, that fairly obvious. For the last 60 years we've been car fixated, cyclists are a very small (but growing) minority often seen as a bit wierd. Whereas in China, cycling is just a means of getting around.
Cheers
Steve
Tiberius,
Did you miss my smiley?
Boby,
Your links did not work so I searched the visforvoltage site (thank you) but was unable to find any reference to a patent by eLation. Cyclone claim a patent that I think is for their mounting a freewheel on the roller clutch that also carries the second sprocket on the gearbox output shaft. This arrangement works very well and allows different drive configurations.
The photos you posted show a remarkable similarity to the TGA Electrobike first produced 25 years ago and was still on sale a few months ago. The right-angled worm gearbox and motor were made by EMD and although efficient for their type, were less efficient than involute gears due to sliding friction compared to the rolling contact of the involute gears.
Miles Hellon,
Thank you for the interesting link but I do like the double freewheel on the Cyclone.
Dave
Did you miss my smiley?
Boby,
Your links did not work so I searched the visforvoltage site (thank you) but was unable to find any reference to a patent by eLation. Cyclone claim a patent that I think is for their mounting a freewheel on the roller clutch that also carries the second sprocket on the gearbox output shaft. This arrangement works very well and allows different drive configurations.
The photos you posted show a remarkable similarity to the TGA Electrobike first produced 25 years ago and was still on sale a few months ago. The right-angled worm gearbox and motor were made by EMD and although efficient for their type, were less efficient than involute gears due to sliding friction compared to the rolling contact of the involute gears.
Miles Hellon,
Thank you for the interesting link but I do like the double freewheel on the Cyclone.
Dave
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