Cytronex feature request - bring back the reduced torque mode button

[greyhound_dog_1]

Having had fun riding around on my Cytronex in the snow, I feel that the bike would benefit from some ability to modulate the top speed.

For those who do not know, the (new) system engages power when you pedal, and stops when you stop pedalling or touch the brake (or turn it off). The motor is either 'on' or 'off'. Not being particularly high torque, this simple system works well.

The power is fed in gradually at low speed, and about ~5 mph gives full torque. Top speed is however, unregulated by any electronics and the motor will pull up to the maximum speed goverened by the motor (in turn modified by the motor gearing), the battery voltage, and the slope or air resistance.

Anywho, this unregulated maximum speed has two issues.
1. An antisocial bike. Perfect for the lone commuter, but don't expect to be able to ride with your mates if they are unpowered (and/or unfit). Or even if they have a cytronex, with less/more battery charge than you. You'd just have to turn off the power entirely and sweat it. I have no mates but others might have.

2. Snow/ice. Due to the gentle and predicable torque feed in, I never suffered from wheel spinning on snow at all, which was good. However it will still try and take you to 15 mph which feels quite scary when the bike squirms around on the bumpy packed snow. One could argue that you would just turn the power off entirely of course in any case, but then it is hard going.

Cytronex used to supply a button to engage a 'reduced torque' setting meant for setting off or just going slower. They dropped this when they put on the speed and pedal sensors, which engage the low torque mode when pulling away. It is much easier to use, but I think there is still a use for a reduced torque mode. I do wonder if I removed the motor magnet pickup, whether it would stay in 'low mode' for snowy conditions...

Ideally though, a 'cruise control' would be implemented, whereby you have a +/- speed button so you can tell the controller to apply a different pulse train and thus select a top speed. I thought I read another post suggesting this feature exists but needs turned on at the factory.

Anyway, just a suggestion.

 

[KirstinS]

Might want to tell mark at cytronex direct . They don't have much of a presence on these boards.....least I've not seen a post for a long time

 

[eddieo]

like standing on a cliff shouting into the wind..

 

[indalo]

Cytronex for me equals a nice, light road bike + a delightful little motor allied to a fast-recharge battery. Flies up hills and good for fast cycling; easy to ride when power runs out.

Great, except that I don't want to ride "pedal to the metal" every time I ride my bike. Consequently, I'll never have another one unless they improve the system control, incorporating a responsive torque sensor and allowing power availability from a standstill.

I'll speculate here and suggest that most within the ebike demographic would find Cytronex machines not to their taste. The on/off power delivery does not lend itself to leisurely riding and they don't really suit any utility role so really, they are simply fast road bikes and not much use as touring machines.

Ok, they do a choice of motors with different windings and being FWD, it's not difficult to swap between them if you like them enough to buy more than one type. For me, a good bike equipped with a Panasonic motor or similar incorporating a torque sensor is far more desirable and useful.

I'm surprised Cytronex are still on the go as their offerings are really niche market stuff and I fear that without diversification in the light of burgeoning competition over the last year or two, they may need to call it a day. A nice, though primitive system sadly lacking some development in my view.

Indalo

 

[flecc]

I'll speculate here and suggest that most within the ebike demographic would find Cytronex machines not to their taste. The on/off power delivery does not lend itself to leisurely riding and they don't really suit any utility role so really, they are simply fast road bikes and not much use as touring machines.

And also completely unsuitable for use in confined urban heavy traffic conditions where fine control of speed can be essential.

 

[TobyAnscombe]

Not had a problem with slow speed; riding around car park and slow speed traffic seems to be ok. I either use the rear brake which cuts the power or just turn it off - yes, its a different system compared to throttle-type but horses for courses; for me its exactly what I wanted. If I pedal really slowly then the speed drops off - from memory, the "switch" is now electronic rather than physical and the controller measures road speed and pedal cadence to figure out whether to switch or not.

Don't forget that the system that Mark has come up with is for a bike that happens to have an assist rather than a motorised bike.. You say tomato and I say tomato

 

[greyhound_dog_1]

Hi Tony. Low speed control is quite good I agree.
My suggestion for improvement was more on how it handles the maximum speed.

I really like the way the motor 'takes up the slack' if you feel tired, to hold you at cruising speed without having to use a throttle, very simple and intuitive and quite relaxing actually for road riding....but rather than running to a full 15mph regardless, it might have the option to select a lower speed to hold the bike at. 99% of the time, 15mph is ideal (actually faster would be nice but illegal), but as I said, ice, snow or riding in a pack, an adjustable target speed would be better than just having to run unpowered.

I think such a modification would be in line with Cytronex's no throttle, minimalist and simple design policy. Just dial in your speed and pedal. I also think this feature exists in the Tongxin controllers, they just have to turn it on.

If they can do that, and provide an increased battery range with lithium chemistry, then I think it would really benefit the brand.

 

[TobyAnscombe]

When I picked up mine last summer I did ask Mark about LiOn batteries and it was something that he was looking into; it would require a controller mod though.

I'm guessing that by the time that my battery ends up fading it will be sorted.. until then I'll just keep going ;-)

My riding style (commute and weekend solo's) are fine; if I go out with anyone then it will be MrsToby who is a triathlete so its generally me trying to keep up - in the immortal words of Clarkson; MORE POWER!!

 

[piotrmacheta]

I have put a Goldant motor onto my Cannodale race bike (I will write a build report soon) and so I feel I can comment on the issues above. Rightly or wrongly I put a 280rpm motor into the 700c wheel. Well, as I have never had a pedelec before (previously throttle only ezee kits), this bike came as a bit of a shock. Like has been said earlier, the thing shot off like a scalded cat and when I stopping peddling it just carried on, luckily only for a second or 2 but long enough for me to worry. Luckily I converted the front brake to a hydraulic disc. Once up to speed on a decent road then it's brilliant at just lightly keeping you up to speed but come to a junction and you have to plan ahead and stop peddaling early. Also changing down a gear or 2 as you come to the junction is not good as the motor kicks back in again. But with practice I have tamed the beast. I have found that the best thing to do is flick the assist slider to 'Low' when approaching traffic. Bit of a pain but it's a very good system.
In summary, yes I can see why you've got to be careful as it does assist rather well at start-off but it works brilliantly for the hills as you start to slow a bit. Amazingly quiet and surprisingly powerful.
My bike weighs 11.5kg with a 5Ahr battery for about 10 to 15 miles. Very very freewheeling as well so can cycle like a normal bike. Hub is so small it doesn't even look electric. I have made 2 bottle batteries out of WinForce LiPo's off ebay and so looks really stealthy too.

 

[jerrysimon]

I have the Tongxin Goldant on two of my bikes with the the stock pedelec controller. A cutout brake is essential!

I plan to convert the Brompton to throttle and will use one of my ecrazyman programmable controllers. I also have a speedict sitting waiting as I want to use that to adjust the throttle endpoints.

The pedelec system fitted to my Swift is one of the fastest/best conversions I have done and was pretty much done by accident. On the Brompton using pedelec you just can't get a high enough gearing to make it comfortable though with the Goldant motor arrangement. I don't really want to cycle much faster than 15mph on the Brompton anyway but the Swift cruises at 18-19 mph pedaling with the Goldant pedelec engaged!

Probably helped also by the fact I am using the winding for a 16" wheel in a 20" wheel

Regards

Jerry

 

[piotrmacheta]

The cutout brake sounds like a good idea. Where do I get one of them from?
I have to say that this little motor is seriously good and so quiet I often think it's stopped working until I stop pedalling. With the controller built into the hub it is so neat. The only blot is that the motor carries on after stopping pedalling (maybe even 3 seconds which feels soooo long). Would highly recommend it on a lightweight bike. I do get a bit of exercise with this kit whereas with the ezee it's just too easy! - get it.
Just checked and the motor is 260 rpm and no-load speed is 26mph but in the real world with my 90kg on board it does about 22 to 23mph with pedalling effort dropping to 18mph on hills. A bit frantic I know but I would usually do about 18mph on it unassisted.
I have just bought a Birdy folding bike and it has 18" wheels (Brompton felt a bit small for me) and so I plan to fit one of these to this but not sure if the standard hub at 36v would give enough speed - any advice? I would like to go up to 20mph and wonder if an external speed controller at 48v might work better.
I understand the Cytronex idea and think it's brilliant - lightweight bike with low assist and not too much thinking about - brilliant. But could do with a bit more control on the 'power slide switch' which doesn't seem to have any control other than full or off.

 

[jerrysimon]

Ebay is your friend ?

ebike brake | eBay

I find the motor is quiet but not as quiet as the original Tongxin "Nano". It does tend to squeal a little at higher speeds.

I think it is a common feature of most pedelec systems to continue running for a few seconds after you stop pedaling, hence the need for an ebrake to make you feel more in control.

As I said I have one of the Goldant motors (with stock controller) fitted to my Swift (20" wheel) and it flies along cruising at 18-20mph on the flat. Mine is the 260RPM I think. As I said I am thinking of trying a ecrazyman controller with throttle on the other one fitted to my Brompton. The problem is the throttle with that controller does not seem to work full range (stops at about 14-15mph) so that is why I was planning on using my new speedict (still sat in its box) which I understand you can set throttle end points with.

I was a little disappointed that with the Goldant they do not supply the power slider with the external controller (unlike yours with the controller in the motor) but from your description it sounds pretty ineffectual anyway. One thing I would like on my swift is the ability to set it at half and full power though all I tend to do is just switch off power which makes me pedal harder and has the same effect. I thought about making something to lower the voltage but then it occurred to me that it would cause the LVC to cut in. I guess you would have to half the current or something ? A little beyond my technical knowledge though I am sure Jeremy would know how

I know I could do it using a ecrazyman controller but with the stock controller I would have no idea where to start.

Regards

Jerry