DIY stage 8: Continuous improvements...

[jerrysimon]

Dan I got the C bag with mine (I need to update my posts). Its a lovely solution

Regards

Jerry

 

[daniel.weck]

Yeah, the Brompton luggage block is a huge selling point. It's so practical and robust.

 

[daniel.weck]

Proof that the B still folds

 

[daniel.weck]

 

[jerrysimon]

Great pics.

I am looking at that front wheel lacing pattern ready for when I start mine

Regards

Jerry

 

[daniel.weck]

I am looking at that front wheel lacing pattern ready for when I start mine

Start with the trailing spokes on one side of the hub, running on the inner side of the flange. Between each spoke, skip one hole on the hub, 3 holes on the rim. Repeat the operation on the other side of the hub. Then lace the leading spokes running on the outer side of the hub flange, leaving one free hole on the rim each time, so that the last pass on the other side of the wheel fills all the remaining holes.

I love this page: Building Bicycle Wheels by Sheldon Brown

You can see on my wheel some awkward spoke angles on the exit from the nipple. That is due to the brass eyelets in the rim holes, which are supposed to provide greater support for the nipple but as it turns out compromise the lacing quality on short-spoked wheels. My Tongxin wheel doesn't present such artifact because the rim is the cheaper version without the brass eyelets, and probably also because the spokes are a tiny bit longer.

Cheers, Dan

 

[jerrysimon]

Start with the trailing spokes on one side of the hub, running on the inner side of the flange.

Thanks Dan. I've been reading up (Sheldon's web site and I purchased that online book on wheel building by Roger Musson) about lining up the hub writing and rim text all viewed through the valve hole. Although not essential its good practice apparantly.

Its the first spoke that I am still trying to figure out

As I understand its on the inside of the hub flange as you say, going up to the first hole on the left of the valve. This is looking at the wheel from the drive side or in my terminolgy, the right hand side of the front wheel when you look down sat on the bike ?

On yours that spoke looks like a leading spoke ?

I guess I will get there in the end lol

PS Ah I just realised drive side is the left hand side! that explains my confusion. Scrub that its still wrong. Oh well as they say I am sure it will be ok on the night lol

Regards

Jerry

 

[daniel.weck]

I used the valve hole too as a reference point, but this is just a convention / good practice. Well, actually it may make a small difference in how much room is available for the actual valve sticking-out of its hole. I've just changed my front inner tube from the factory-provided rubber valve to a more practical Schwalbe steel valve with screw => the latter is longer than the former, which gave me headaches when inflating the tyre (as there was not enough room in between the spokes, and the distance from the Bafang hub to the rim was too short ! This may be less problematic with the smaller diameter Tongxin). In the end I managed, at the cost of a few grazed knuckles... Here's a photo to illustrate my point (see the expanded lever on the valve adapter?):

Note about lacing: on a small 16" rim, the cross-1 lacing pattern is very easy because you're not actually "lacing" any spokes (i.e. leading spoke coming out on the outer side of the hub flange, and then going under a trailing spoke as it is crossing it, which results in a stronger "connection" between spokes, and therefore more tension in the rim overall => the last crossing spoke is "interlaced"). You'll see that in our case (cross-1 with small diameter rim and rather large diameter hub) the trailing / leading spoke pairs are not touching each other. It would be too hard to cross them, kind of counter-productive.

Cheers, Dan

 

[jerrysimon]

Thanks. As I see it isn't this a cross-1 lacing i.e. spokes only cross one other spoke ?

I need to go back and re-read lol

Regards

Jerry

 

[daniel.weck]

As I see it isn't this a cross-1 lacing i.e. spokes only cross one other spoke ?

Oops, typo ! Thank you.
By the way, whatever the cross pattern is, only the outermost spoke crossing is "interlaced" (spokes go behind one another). I've always wondered what it meant for cross-1, as there's only one crossing I think we shouldn't interlace them, because our particular application (cross-1 with small diameter rim and large diameter hub) means that the trailing / leading spoke pairs would be very hard to interlace without bending them considerably.

 

[jerrysimon]

Dan I have been reading more and it appears there are many 4, 3, 2 or 0 (known as radial) options.

Quote from Sheldon's page

"The more spokes a wheel has, the higher the cross number for a similar spoke angle. 48 spoke wheels are usually built cross 5, 40 spokes, cross 4; 36 spokes, cross 3 or 4; 32 spokes, cross 3; 28 or 24 spokes, cross 2..."

Perhaps its becasue this wheel is so small that it does not appear to cross two spokes

I am sure one of the more experienced wheel builders will chip in. Perhaps I should have had this discussion in my/your wheel building posts.

Regards

Jerry

 

[daniel.weck]

The 1-cross lacing pattern is quite common in small-wheel applications (unicycle, BMX, Brompton, etc.).

2-cross:

 

[daniel.weck]

By the way, whatever the cross pattern is, only the outermost spoke crossing is "interlaced" (spokes go behind one another). I've always wondered what it meant for cross-1, as there's only one crossing I think we shouldn't interlace them, because our particular application (cross-1 with small diameter rim and large diameter hub) means that the trailing / leading spoke pairs would be very hard to interlace without bending them considerably.

Wheel Building

Wheel Lacing Information - Fixes for Some Problems

"
If you were going to lace the wheel with a 2-cross pattern and the spokes are too short and you decided to go to a 1-cross pattern, there are two ways to do this. First off a 1-cross pattern shouldn't have greased nipples for the same reasons as radial lacing, so clean off any grease the best you can. You can lace a 1-cross wheel either so all of the spokes come off the same side of a flange, or alternate sides like in a standard cross laced wheel. If you alternate the sides of the flange, do not let the crossing spokes physically touch, the bend that would result would be too sharp and create a high pressure point. If all the spokes came off the same side of the flange, the crossing would be OK, just possibly a little hard to work with.
"

 

[jerrysimon]

Thats quite a nice link Dan.

The confusion seems to be on which side the left and right rim holes start at the valve.

PS I had thought that you ALWAYS lube nipples and rims EXCEPT for radial builds ?

Also I thought the countersink was for the nipple end but what he says here about it being for the bend makes sense. That said my Cytronex wheel is done that way.


Regards

Jerry

 

[daniel.weck]

PS I had thought that you ALWAYS lube nipples and rims EXCEPT for radial builds ?

1-cross has similar properties to radial (lower angle of incidence).

http://spokeanwheel.110mb.com/lacingrl.htm

"
The only thing you should not do with radial lacing is grease the threads of the spoke. A spoke prep formula that locks the nipples after assembly can be used, but regular grease should be avoided. The reason you should not use regular grease is because the spokes are directly in line with their main force vectors from the rim to the hub.

With all conventional spoked wheels the build tension on the threads is the only thing that keeps the nipples from loosening. When a spoked wheel receives a vertical stress shock, the spokes closest to the area of the rim that received the stress get relaxed, and the spokes at the opposite side of the wheel undergo a tension increase. The tensions then quickly return to normal. In a radially laced spoke the shock wave forces on the spoke threads is even all the way around the threads, there is no imbalance that tries to wedge the spoke into the nipple. (In a cross laced spoke, since the main force vectors from the rim to the hub do not line up with the spoke, the spoke threads have uneven tension and the spoke tries to wedge itself into the nipple.) Since the spokes nearest the shock could have has much as all of their build tension removed, they can unscrew from the shock. The spokes that have their build tension removed are also the ones most likely to loosen up in these situations. Conventional grease just lessens the friction on the threads and hastens the nipples loosening up from road shock.
"

 

[jerrysimon]

So did you use a thread locker compound on yours ?

Regards

Jerry

 

[daniel.weck]

So did you use a thread locker compound on yours

Nope

Cheers, Dan

 

[jerrysimon]

Ok Dan one last question for now.

In this 1-cross pattern I assume you don't have to rotate the hub during the build ?

Regards

Jerry

 

[daniel.weck]

In this 1-cross pattern I assume you don't have to rotate the hub during the build ?

I'm not sure what you mean Jerry

I work on the floor to start with, the axle perpendicular to the floor level and the wheel on the horizontal plane. I then turn the wheel up side down to lace the second pass of trailing spokes. At this stage I need to rotate the hub as much as I can in the driving direction, whilst keeping the rim static. This way, I put tension in all the current spokes (making sure the nipples do not get stuck in the double-walled rim holes ... I check them one by one). I repeat the same maneuver to keep the spokes in check when I lace the leading spokes (it's particularly important so that you don't have to bend the leading spokes too much...and they need bending due to their location on the outer side of the hub flange). The last pass of spoke-lacing is much easier, because the rim + hub assembly is stabilized enough at this point.

I hope this helps, Dan

 

[NRG]

From ES, some good links to YouTube videos:

Endless-sphere.com • View topic - For Beginners: How to Build a Wheel