Do members think it is possible to produce a decent e bike for £1k

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,848
30,402
Even if it is comparible to normal LiPo batteries then it can be a decent bike but as with other cheaper components only for people with fairly short or untaxing rides.
All the evidence, including from members over up to 4 years, is that these do outlive most Lipo batteries. I definitely don't agree about short untaxing journeys, 370 Wh is the same in any battery chemistry where range is concerned, and very many e-bikes offer less.
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
There is no evidence to date that length of ride makes any difference to the life of LifePo4 batteries but like all lithium batteries it is never good to keep the battery empty for any period of time. It is our advice to keep the battery between 20 to 80 percent of max,in practice we recommend that if the bike is to be left unused for some period of time then charge to max and take the top off with a short ride,the self discharge rate is less than 2 to 3 percent per month. If only someone could produce a lightweight LifePo4 then that would,in my opinion,be the ultimate e bike battery but despite many enquiries by myself at the recent Shanghai bike show no battery manufacturer currently has such a product,I suspect the chemical makeup of LifePo4 prevents any weight reduction.
Dave
Kudoscycles
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
To me its the size of the batteries that spoil the look of the bike...which is fine if you are happy with a utilitarian A to B e bike. UK very price sensitive, but this totally arbitrary thinking makes little sense to me...I like decent bikes and they cost more
 

Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
6,237
2,211
69
Sevenoaks Kent
We must have been lucky. We have seven year old Wispers on the road using original LiPo batteries. Of course the voltage is down against when they were bought new but they are still going strong. We also sell surprisingly few new batteries which brings me to the conclusion that the high end well managed LiPo batteries in general are holding up well.

I agree with David regarding battery conditioning, if we do get battery problems most of them seem to be in February or March when people are pulling their bikes out of winter storage. We have now combatted this by having a choice of charge voltages on our chargers, 39V and 42V. The 39V is a conditioning charge to be used when putting the bike to bed for the cold winter months. We also put a huge yellow sticker on the side of all our batteries explaining how to look after the batteries.

We have had a bike on test using Lithium Sulphur for a few months now and hopefully next year we will be able to offer these eco friendly batteries as an alternative. The volume is larger than a LiPo battery so we would only be able to fit about 400Wh into our cases. Happily the batteries are about half the weight of our 600Wh batteries and completely depleting the battery has no adverse effect on the cells. I will keep you posted.

All the best

David
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
To me its the size of the batteries that spoil the look of the bike...which is fine if you are happy with a utilitarian A to B e bike. UK very price sensitive, but this totally arbitrary thinking makes little sense to me...I like decent bikes and they cost more
Eddie,we are working on better battery positioning with lighter batteries,see our latest Secret bike with in frame battery but not all purchasers are so concerned,the LifePo4 has many other advantages,we all have different priorities that is what makes the variety of e bikes offered so important.
Dave
KudosCycles.
Ps it's ......... hot down here!
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,848
30,402
If only someone could produce a lightweight LifePo4 then that would,in my opinion,be the ultimate e bike battery but despite many enquiries by myself at the recent Shanghai bike show no battery manufacturer currently has such a product,I suspect the chemical makeup of LifePo4 prevents any weight reduction.
Dave
Kudoscycles
I'm sure that's true Dave, but does it matter in real world terms? The average of e-bikers with bike is an all-up weight of about 110 kilos, so I don't think an extra one or two kilos is in any way crucial. The hill climb performance difference will be almost unmeasurable and minor weight changes have no effect at all on the flat or downhill.
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
Eddie,we are working on better battery positioning with lighter batteries,see our latest Secret bike with in frame battery but not all purchasers are so concerned,the LifePo4 has many other advantages,we all have different priorities that is what makes the variety of e bikes offered so important.
Dave
KudosCycles.

Ps it's ......... hot down here!
You lucky Devil...weather awful again here, cant wait to get away again! I well except that I'm a fussy budgerigar, and your bikes for a different clientele. But you assessed the e bike market well, identified a gap and seem to be making a success of things. At least we share a taste of nice things..You yachts, me Bosch powered e bikes!lol
 

M_B

Finding my (electric) wheels
May 8, 2011
14
0
No, it is the same e-bike market and there isn't another one.
I don't agree, I think there is another 'potential' market (and it's formed from all those who don't cycle at the moment) , it just hasn't been developed yet. The UK is very windy compared to the rest of Europe, and hilly in places, these are two major reasons why people don't consider cycling in the UK, although they ain't the only reasons by any means.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,848
30,402
I don't agree, I think there is another 'potential' market (and it's formed from all those who don't cycle at the moment) , it just hasn't been developed yet. The UK is very windy compared to the rest of Europe, and hilly in places, these are two major reasons why people don't consider cycling in the UK, although they ain't the only reasons by any means.
But all the evidence show they don't cycle because they just don't want to, Britain no longer being a cycling nation. It's got nothing to do with hills or headwinds or even weather, they don't even get as far as considering such factors. About the only cycling factor the masses consider is that of traffic danger, and that only in relation to their children who they commonly refuse to allow to have a bike.

There's no way that is a potential market. They have cars, they very much prefer cars and almost all of them will give up just about anything before they will give up their cars.

And there's another factor you haven't considered, one we've discussed a number of times. It's strange but true that e-biking is least popular in the hilliest areas. I live in one such area and e-bikes are as rare as hens teeth, indeed in all my cycling years I've yet to see one ridden around here, just one parked once and one being pushed on a pavement once. No-one knows why this is, the best guess being that e-bikes are too low powered to interest a public wanting to by carried up hills by the motor and who don't expect to have to pedal hard as well.
 

alfazzr

Pedelecer
Jun 7, 2012
80
0
Having spent several hours today emailing Kudos dealers to see if they are in Cyclescheme I may now give up knowing the ones I am looking at are not decent !!!

Alfazzr
 

JuicyBike

Trade Member
Jan 26, 2009
1,671
527
Derbyshire
We are approved Cycle Scheme retailers alfazzr...
 

alfazzr

Pedelecer
Jun 7, 2012
80
0
Thanks Bob,

I had checkled that out with you and I know it is just personal taste but I just don't like the look of them - sorry!

They did seem to be good value though ! (I feel cruel now!)

Alfazzr
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
Having spent several hours today emailing Kudos dealers to see if they are in Cyclescheme I may now give up knowing the ones I am looking at are not decent !!!

Alfazzr
Regret I will be honest and say that the government have made the cycle scheme so complex that it's just not worth all the hassle. The private companies that were set up to process the scheme charge 10percent,because Kudos dealers work on low margins they don't have enough profit to encompass that charge so must charge a premium to cover the cost and hassle of the scheme. If you buy a higher cost bike the dealer may dial in the cost of the scheme,but as they say 'there's no such thing as a free lunch'
I think 'e bikes direct' and 'all about the bike' still offer the cycle scheme at a premium cost. Kudos direct will not offer the scheme.
Classic example of governments offering such a good deal that it had to be watered down to still make it sound good but not cost anything because of the poor uptake-the PV feed in tariff is another example.
Dave
Kudoscycles
 

alfazzr

Pedelecer
Jun 7, 2012
80
0
I agree Cyclescheme is a bit over complicated. Having found a dealer through wich I could get a Kudos Sport on Cyclescheme - as you said they want to pass on the 10% to the listed price for the privelage!

Also discounted bikes like the Trek mentioned earlier for under £1000 may well not be available on Cyclescheme.
 

devon_skylark

Finding my (electric) wheels
Feb 9, 2012
11
0
South Devon
Yes, that Trek FX7.3 with Bionx motor would have tempted me. My normal bike is a Trek FX7.3 which is £500 new. It's a great bike unassisted and with the Bionxx hub motor it would certainly be a very good bike to have. I've tried the Trek Valencia and it was very good, this offer has the same battery and motor so definitely a bargain.
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
Yes, that Trek FX7.3 with Bionx motor would have tempted me. My normal bike is a Trek FX7.3 which is £500 new. It's a great bike unassisted and with the Bionxx hub motor it would certainly be a very good bike to have. I've tried the Trek Valencia and it was very good, this offer has the same battery and motor so definitely a bargain.
I know the BionX kit expensive but the ready built bikes are no dearer then others..In Germany they are popular with their own forum within the german pedelec. you can get a nice KTM BioniX powered bike for approx 2K