Durable Mountain/City Bike around £2000-3000.

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
19,529
16,466
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Can we confirm what you mean by 'controller' Far as im aware thats the display thingy sits on the bar.

A prewired bike is just that pre wired. It will be connected into the motor and should just be a simple case of connecting the wires from it to the wires on the light. Then enabling it via the diagnostic app, whichj i believe you can download yourself and run it so no dealer input is really needed. I've watched a number of vids of people wiring in lights directly, and none of whom were ebike sellers or shops.

I honestly do not see a bike costing £5k being something that is going to present problems when in the specs its listing as pre wired.
This is more a case of some cheapo Chinese made hub motor affair..£999 out of the interweb.
the controller is the circuit that controls the motor. On Bosch motors, it's the large green board that you see when you open the motor casing. The problem with using prewired lighting system is the accidental shortcircuits that you may inflict on the electronics if your lights fail or their wiring get mangled during a fall. If that happens on a Chinese bike, it may kill the LCD because the on/off circuitry is in the LCD, on a Bosch bike, it's on the controller so the potential repair cost is much higher. If you need powerful front light, I recommend using a separate USB rechargeable light. No wiring is needed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: guerney

AndyBike

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 8, 2020
1,181
516
I hear what you're saying, but im on a number of Emtb forums, and those type of problems, especially affecting the motor is just not something i hear anything about. On here, the main problems people report seems to be with the hub motors, the wiring, the controller(as you say) battery etc. I dont know if its down to the costs, obviously the bosch/Yamaha/etc systems do suffer problems at times, but tbh those probs seem related to water ingress from the nature of their use, going through streams etc.

Because of this i would suspect that the mid drive systems are certainly robust, especially given the abuse they go through, which cannot really be compared to the plodding steady commuter types the hub motors seem to favour.

Its because of this that i would lean towards there being less of a problem. A pre wired system i have read today in EMTB forums, where the customer watched them fit an expensive(£400) Lupine lamp to a 2020 Scott Emtb, that they just twisted the wires from the lamp onto the wires from the pre wired system, so i would think from that that the procedure of connecting these lights is less fraught with potential problems, and more akin to a 'plug and play' type of set up.

I think the only problem i would have to watch out for is the one you mentioned earlier about the ampage for the light 1, 1.5 or 2a. But with the light being 1000 lumen, its going to be a case of setting it at its lowest (1a) and seeing how that goes. I admit to having issues there in that I cant find exactly what he ampage of the light i have is, only its lumen rating. I think i'll probably have to email Exposure to find out. Apparently like Hope, they are amongst the best mtb component companies for customer service.
I think also an email to Scott, possibly in way of chastisement as to their lack of fitting instructions for fitting lamps to their bikes. They make a big play about it being 'pre wired' but the info seems to stop there and theres no instructional vids that would help.
Perhaps they are reckoning that the owner would be employing a shop to do it, but perhaps they havent taken into account what is involved* .

* Far as i can see to open the cover, you need to remove a lower motor guard(damn these mtb's needing protection) to access the screws that hold the motor cover on. And im going with a generousness thoughts on the matter. It might actually need the motor to drop down just to access the cover screws- A job ive been avoiding.
If thats the case then that is really dumb and it would obviously cost the customer more.

The bike shop i got it from i think is really ripping folk off asking 50/hour. Theres another mechanic i use, possibly one of the most qualified in the country, has the full range of cytech certifications, and was the Olympic mechanic for Shimano a couple of years ago. He's charging about £25/hour. So having the ebike shop asking 50, is just taking the proverbial. Which makes me lean more heavily towards doing the work myself(plus the super qualified chap lends me his tools occasionally, which is certainly handy.

So I'll take on what you've all said and try to be careful, but also research a lot more as to what exactly the voltages/amps etc etc actually are before making a goo of it. I've very practical in these things been building bikes for 25 years, i service sus forks, rear shocks, hydraulic systems as well as everything else, so i reckon a light shouldnt present too much of a challenge, especially with the info you guys have supplied.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
19,529
16,466
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
installation is usually not a problem. The light is off, the cables are factory made, you only have to push in a connector. The risk comes later. As you said, you don't know how many amps the lamp is going to draw, and what would happen if or when the lamp fails.
The issue for many users is how to quantify the risk/benefit ratio whereas if you use a rechargeable lamp, admittedly you will have to reach further for the lamp's on/off button but it would give you peace of mind that you won't have to worry about an £800 motor.
 

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
16,203
6,319
with bosch when the light outputs are turned on it will cut the power to the motor when the batt gets down to 10% so you can still see where you are going.

one guy with a brose motor had a light on his bike and had a firmware update refitted the light and it must have been drawing more amps than it was allowed to with the new firmware and bricked his motor.

with can bus you cant really bugger about with it with 3rd party stuff and it gets more locked down every year.

my kiox now tracks my ride data after a software update but no gps as dont take my phone most of the time but it did not do that b4 the update.

as soon as my phone is in range it is sent to the app.
DSC_0271_04.JPG

with gps as well tracked as soon as it is powerd on thats how they will stop all dongles with new smart motors.

and have to pay a subscription fee to use the lights at night. :rolleyes:
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Woosh

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
10,243
3,004
the controller is the circuit that controls the motor. On Bosch motors, it's the large green board that you see when you open the motor casing. The problem with using prewired lighting system is the accidental shortcircuits that you may inflict on the electronics if your lights fail or their wiring get mangled during a fall. If that happens on a Chinese bike, it may kill the LCD because the on/off circuitry is in the LCD, on a Bosch bike, it's on the controller so the potential repair cost is much higher. If you need powerful front light, I recommend using a separate USB rechargeable light. No wiring is needed.
I haven't got around to removing the light I soldered onto the bbs01b wire for lights, but will solder the one connected there to the battery through an inline fuse instead, as I have the others - who needs controller/display burnout hassle when it's easily avoided? But a bbs01b controller costs less than £90, display costs less than that, therefore not a gigantic pain in the Bosch.

Does the Bosch controller automatically switch the light on when it's dark or indoors? My C18 display does - easy to be caught out there (if the battery hasn't been removed and time allowed for any residual current to dissipate), when connecting a light to the Bafang controller lighting cable wires.
 
Last edited:

georgehenry

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2015
1,435
1,259
Surrey
On my Haibike I have found re-chargeable lights work very well with little hassle. I have a Yamaha system where lights can be enabled but have never bothered. You need to check but somewhere I remember seeing that the power of light you can use if you fit fixed lights is more a be seen light rather than a search light. Definitely something to be sure about. Some of the Riese and Muller models have a built in Supernova M99 Mini Pro, but apart from saying it is powerful do not state figures.
 

AndyBike

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 8, 2020
1,181
516
The issue for many users is how to quantify the risk/benefit ratio whereas if you use a rechargeable lamp, admittedly you will have to reach further for the lamp's on/off button but it would give you peace of mind that you won't have to worry about an £800 motor.
Yeah, I think its to fraught with possible dangers, and as you say its an 800 quid motor, and thats the last little expense i need. The light is Exposure, one of my favourite manufacturers, and I've already got their Toto at 2000 lumen(3200lmn in reflex mode), which is pretty damn bright, so it would probably be a good idea just to leave it there.
This is what happens when you get a £120 light new for 41 quid, makes you anxious to fit it, which would be good as a constantly on day light, without having to worry about forgetting to remove the big one and that being nicked.

From the set up vid you set the amps either 1a, 1.5a or 2a, so once that is set up it shouldnt be an issue, but froom all thats been said, it is slightly offputting. But all that in mind other people riding ebikes have fitted light and they've been running without problems, so is it just a case of needless worry, or worrying about what might happen, even though it probably wont.
 

Alimarsh45

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jul 4, 2022
13
1
the most i got from a 500w batt is 48 miles at normal bike speeds and climbing hills ect.

also the batts for these bikes are expensive a new bosch 500w batt is £633
A good point is the price. I have a Chinese Yose battery ( 36 v 15.6 ah) which I think is 561 wh and I get approx 30 miles with hills and mainly eco riding for £200.00 ish.
But this is my first ebike ( kit) and would like to go further on a charge.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
20,134
8,230
60
West Sx RH
A good point is the price. I have a Chinese Yose battery ( 36 v 15.6 ah) which I think is 561 wh and I get approx 30 miles with hills and mainly eco riding for £200.00 ish.
But this is my first ebike ( kit) and would like to go further on a charge.
Of those approx. 30 miles, can you give and idea of total ascent ?