E-Bikes: The phenomenon, The Problem.

[guerney]

I doubt there will be a massive general crackdown, there aren't enough cops. Reducing antisocial ebiker behaviour on high streets is about all they have manpower for. Sneaky Sunak is doing the best he can to not make waves.

The BBS01B has 250W engraved underneath the motor. My plan if challenged is to flip the bike over, thus making view of it accessible... it's also engaved large therefore accessible for shortsighted cops to read. I'd also show them the speed limit on my display. I might even let them ride it around a bit, if they give me their police car keys or the equivalent (ever increasing, it's a money pit is cycling) of my bike's value in cash.

Two years ago, ebay had laminated paper stickers with speed limit as well as power. How about a cheap £5 custom engraved plaque? Engraved with:

BAFANG
Model: BBS01B
EPAC according to EN 15194
250W, 25km/h

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/374004673560

There are oodles of trophy shops near me, where I could pay more than twice as much. There's already a CE mark on the motor (or was, there has been much riding through rain and mud since I looked last). I could simply araldite or superglue+baking soda the plaque to the motor.

 

[Cadence]

Aikema motors normally have easy-peal labels. Does yours have one?

No they don't. The engraving includes "AKM" and the model references 95RS and 95RX. "Yosepower" is also engraved on them. The only labels are a round one "CE" and a square one "UK CA". I'm assuming that this is because the motors are OEM for Yose by Aikema.

 

[saneagle]

It's absolutely moronic legislation.

Everything you said makes sense. Some of us have been saying the same for years. You would think that the legislation and regulations would be have been done by professionals that understand simple principles, but in practice they seem to have been done by a bunch of rank amateurs - probably part-time students as a project. Wasn't there some consultation about it involving BEBA? Where's Wisper? They were invoved with that. what happened to BEBA? Instead of sorting out this mess, it seems that they're more interested in selling us lights and swimming pools:

https://www.beba-online.co.uk/#:~:text=The%20British%20Electric%20Bicycle%20Association%20was%20formed%20by%20some%20of,to%20create%20an%20industry%20standard

.

 

[flecc]

Why in the UK we should have a 15.5mph limit anyway is another question. A 20mph assisted limit would fit in well with our urban roads. I suspect 25km/h is something that works well in Europe for many urban centres but should never have been used here.

It's not a matter of it working well in Europe.

It's simply that motor vehicle legislation starts at 25kph with the L1A class, aka Low Powered Moped. Anything that powers to or above that is a motor vehicle. The mention of power phase down to 25 kph in pedelec legislation means they just escape that classification.

However, this law is not a problem. The problem is that in the UK we require all L1e-A and L1e-B to be registered, number plated, ridden with a driving licence etc. If we simply modify that to suit there is no problem, and we could even have done that as an EU member, since usage law is entirely a matter for member nations.
.

 

[saneagle]

No they don't. The engraving includes "AKM" and the model references 95RS and 95RX. "Yosepower" is also engraved on them. The only labels are a round one "CE" and a square one "UK CA". I'm assuming that this is because the motors are OEM for Yose by Aikema.

That's not what Cadence said. Let them answer.

 

[Cadence]

That's not what Cadence said. Let them answer.

What? It is what I said and I am answering!

 

[saneagle]

What? It is what I said and I am answering!

Let's start again then. Is the "350" on a label or engraved? In both your answers you didn't say. The first one says "Yosepower" is engraved. The second one doesn't mention the designation number.

 

[Cadence]

Let's start again then. Is the "350" on a label or engraved? In both your answers you didn't say. The first one says "Yosepower" is engraved. The second one doesn't mention the designation number.

What I said was "the model number and "Yosepower" is engraved on the hub eg. AKM22041404012 95RS.R350-3626."
However, they say a picture is worth a thousand words, so here are two of the 350w. motor:-



The 250w. is similarly marked, but the numbers are obviously different.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

It's not a matter of it working well in Europe.

It's simply that motor vehicle legislation starts at 25kph with the L1A class, aka Low Powered Moped. Anything that powers to or above that is a motor vehicle. The mention of power phase down to 25 kph in pedelec legislation means they just escape that classification.

However, this law is not a problem. The problem is that in the UK we require all L1e-A and L1e-B to be registered, number plated, ridden with a driving licence etc. If we simply modify that to suit there is no problem, and we could even have done that as an EU member, since usage law is entirely a matter for member nations.
.

I'm sure legislation can be written or amended to allow an exception for ebikes if that is desired. I don't know much about mopeds nowadays but when I was a kid it seemed like mopeds were doing 25mph easily and mph was the legislation. My brother had a Puch Maxi. 25Kph sounds like another inappropriate part of EU legislation when we are a country that uses mph mainly. Maybe 25mph or beyond should be the level for moped class vehicles and 20mph should be the limit for e-bikes in the UK. 25kph sounds terrible for a moped. I really wouldn't want to be going about on a e-moped at 15.5mph and being over-taken by almost every bicycle under rider power except for hills. I'd feel a complete plonker on such a vehicle and wouldn't want to be licensed, taxed and insured at my expense for the privilege of looking like a complete plonker either.

 

[saneagle]

What I said was "the model number and "Yosepower" is engraved on the hub eg. AKM22041404012 95RS.R350-3626."
However, they say a picture is worth a thousand words, so here are two of the 350w. motor:-

View attachment 52648View attachment 52649

The 250w. is similarly marked, but the numbers are obviously different.

Is that engraved or black ink? On the black motors, I don't think they're engraved. It's white ink.

That's a weird AKM motor. Normally they have screw-on side-plates with the clutch screwed to it. Yours looks more like a MXUS or Bafang that has the clutch attached to the gears on the other side driving a fixed ring gear. I'd love to see what's inside it. Do you know the reduction ratio?

 

[Nealh]

The 95rs and the other two models I think are OEM models, no mention of the reduction ratio on the website just that they are 250w rated. But they state 27/32kmh and the std 24/36/48v .


My akm128c /Q128C had a paper label that fell off but now supports a stick on aluminium one (on the hub motor) that says, Akiema 250w / 25kmh inaccordance with EAPC EN15194.

 

[Cadence]

Is that engraved or black ink? On the black motors, I don't think they're engraved. It's white ink.

That's a weird AKM motor. Normally they have screw-on side-plates with the clutch screwed to it. Yours looks more like a MXUS or Bafang that has the clutch attached to the gears on the other side driving a fixed ring gear. I'd love to see what's inside it. Do you know the reduction ratio?

I had assumed from the markings that they are AKM motors. However, I bow to your superior knowledge on all that's pedelec.
Here is a photo of the markings on my 250w hub:-


On Aikema's website the 95RX seems to have identical markings, but looking at the photo now it is clearly a different design. Perhaps AKM subcontract the hubs they supply to Yose from another manufacturer? The 350w. markings looked like engraving, but looking at the 250w. now perhaps they are both marked with ink. I might try a small area with white spirit or acetone to see if it comes off.
I haven't a clue what the reduction ratios are and I must admit what little info I have came from the Aikema website. Now I don't know what I've got!

 

[saneagle]

My akm128c /Q128C had a paper label that fell off but now supports a stick on aluminium one (on the hub motor) that says, Akiema 250w / 25kmh inaccordance with EAPC EN15194.

That's very strange because I've known that to happen to other AKM/Q128C motors. It must be a common problem - maybe something to do with temperature.

 

[saneagle]

I had assumed from the markings that they are AKM motors. However, I bow to your superior knowledge on all that's pedelec.
Here is a photo of the markings on my 250w hub:-
View attachment 52655

On Aikema's website the 95RX seems to have identical markings, but looking at the photo now it is clearly a different design. Perhaps AKM subcontract the hubs they supply to Yose from another manufacturer? The 350w. markings looked like engraving, but looking at the 250w. now perhaps they are both marked with ink. I might try a small area with white spirit or acetone to see if it come off.
I haven't a clue what the reduction ratios are and I must admit what little info I have came from the Aikema website. Now I don't know what I've got!

I'm not saying it's not made by Aikema. All the previous ones had similar construction, but now they have changed with those ones. I didn't notice before.

 

[flecc]

25Kph sounds like another inappropriate part of EU legislation when we are a country that uses mph mainly. Maybe 25mph or beyond should be the level for moped class vehicles and 20mph should be the limit for e-bikes in the UK.

That would really be irrational, How could one have a higher powered speed limit for assisted bicycles that that for a registered motor vehicle?

25kph sounds terrible for a moped. I really wouldn't want to be going about on a e-moped at 15.5mph and being over-taken by almost every bicycle under rider power except for hills.

Misunderstanding again. The L1e-A "moped" class is bicycle based, just like a pedelec but allowed up to 1000 watts power rating, so ideal for when more power is needed rather than more speed. So looking perfectly ok and not at all embarrassing at cycling speeds.

As I've repeatedly said to you and others in here, there is nothing wrong with pedelec and other light electric vehicle laws. They work for many other countries around the world.

The problem is solely the way this country implements them.

For example, in the UK we insist someone has to be at least 16 to get a moped licence, even for a bicycle based slow one. And to get that they have to go through our CBT (Compulsory Basic Training) and then our arduous driving practical and theoretical test.

Now look how much easier it can be elsewhere:

Ten EU Member States allow children aged 15 years to acquire a driving license for a moped (Austria, Czechia, Germany, Spain, Finland, Croatia, Lithuania, Sweden, Slovenia and Slovakia).

Seven countries only require children to be 14 years (Estonia, France, Hungary, Italy, Latvia, Poland and Portugal).

None of them have the uniquely British compulsory CBT.

In France for example, to ride a scooter at 14 with a capacity of less than 50cc or equivalent 28mph e-moped, you must:

1. Have a driver's license of any kind.
2. Or, have an “AM” licence. You can get an AM licence after a short 8-hour practical course, accessible to anyone who has obtained their ASSR (School Road Safety Certificate) levels 1 and 2. (N.B. All their schools include the road safety courses in the curriculum).

You see, all we need to do is be more liberal in how we apply the laws. Germany has long done that, it's why they introduced the S class high speed pedelec, so any pedelecer can be powered at up to 28mph, safely with minimal bureaucracy.
.

 

[Cadence]

I'm not saying it's not made by Aikema. All the previous ones had similar construction, but now they have changed with those ones. I didn't notice before.

Perhaps a "design engineer" has joined from another company. The Chinese do seem to have a very limited understanding of "intellectual property rights"!

 

[WheezyRider]

If it says "350W" on the motor, it's automatically breaking the rules, which is why I have stayed clear of Yose Power's 350W motors.

@flecc, I think the reason we have CBT etc and other tough rules for motorbikes etc goes back to the late 80s when there was a big outcry about the number of deaths each year from people riding such vehicles.

Sometimes I wonder if it's a case of people in the UK just not knowing how to be sensible with things, so we have to create loads of what in other places would be seen as stupid rules. It's like alcohol in many continental countries, most people there seem to be able to handle it sensibly without getting drunk and starting a riot.

 

[Nealh]

It's a shame , the 250/350w RX hub is the same hub just marked different for the markets. 250w doesn't cut it in North america and I guess some othr markets but 350w sounds alot more impressive.

 

[Cadence]

If it says "350W" on the motor, it's automatically breaking the rules, which is why I have stayed clear of Yose Power's 350W motors.

Indeed so, but (being pedantic) it doesn't actually say that. It says 95RS. R350-3626.
I decypher that as 350w. 36 volt 26" wheel, but there is no W after the 350, so it's not immediately obvious to the average copper - it could just be a serial number.
I'm tempted to get a 250w. sticker off ebay, but not really sure if I want to deliberately devious.

 

[WheezyRider]

Indeed so, but (being pedantic) it doesn't actually say that. It says 95RS. R350-3626.
I decypher that as 350w. 36 volt 26" wheel, but there is no W after the 350, so it's not immediately obvious to the average copper - it could just be a serial number.
I'm tempted to get a 250w. sticker off ebay, but not really sure if I want to deliberately devious.

View attachment 52686

If that's the way you want to go, best to grind off the AKM code then. A quick Google of the AKM code will quickly show it to be 350W and you have some explaining to do.