EBMS - Electric Bike Manufacturer's Standard???

[NRG]

Agee with you jbond re form over function and many other points but not battery location, I see no issue with behind the seat post the slight compromise in frame geometry is not worth worrying about IMHO and is preferable to a high mounted rear rack position.

 

[Straylight]

So far the discussion seems to be focused on battery placement, but what about other components that are common to most ebikes, such as controllers, handlebar control gear, and their interfaces? It strikes me that if all hub driven ebike brands were to use the same controller, then the simplification for the end user would be vast. The common control unit could integrate all the features widely used, and have redundant capacity for others such as regen, and the ability to re-program to the individual's needs.

This would also have the benefit of standardising things like brake cut-out and throttle terminations, as well as the very basic things like motor phase wiring colours, so allowing for off the shelf replacements for common parts.

For example with such a system, were I to decide that I wanted to switch to a thumb throttle, I could simply order one and plug it in to my existing bike rather than the present state where I'd have to buy one, after first finding out whether I have a hall or resistive setup, and then fiddle about working out which wire connects to which, ordering the right connector, and oh look my old unit has a power button...umm.

 

[Straylight]

come on guys - it's not that radical an idea - what do you think?

An agreed controller standard could still be developed by individual component manufacturers, but would just have to conform to a basic compatibility standard. In the same way that all intelligent theatrical lighting eqipment is DMX512 compatible, or that all PC cpu's conform to standards that mean that you can run windows on any of them.

 

[Ultra Motor]

come on guys - it's not that radical an idea - what do you think?

An agreed controller standard could still be developed by individual component manufacturers, but would just have to conform to a basic compatibility standard. In the same way that all intelligent theatrical lighting eqipment is DMX512 compatible, or that all PC cpu's conform to standards that mean that you can run windows on any of them.

Hi Straylight,

No-one else seems to be responding, so thought I'd jump in

For our cheaper range then something like this would be feasible, however for the more expensive bikes where there tends to be patented technology and unique Digital controllers (most others use analogue) the compatibility wouldn't be an options as this gives us a competitive edge.

Thanks
Mark

 

[onmebike]

It wouldn't be possible to Standardise for all battery chemistry's as many have found. Putting lifepo4 on an ebike designed for Li-ion or lipo would result in handlebar power indicator's giving inaccurate readings. The lower fully charged voltage of Lifepo4 would cause lights to drop out quicker initially and then the higher low voltage cutout would cause lights to show power still available after the bms low volt protection has cut.

Fully charged 36v lifepo4 approx 40.5volt[42.00v for Li-ion and Lipo]
Low voltage cutoff for a 36v lifepo4 approx 36v[31.5v for Li-ion and Lipo]

Also if you put Li-ion or Lipo on an ebike designed for lifepo4 the controller would cut the power around 36volt resulting in you not getting full capacity from your battery.

I suppose these minor issue's could be gotten over.

 

[Straylight]

I don't know why, but I seem to be something of a conversation killer round here

Of course there will always be brands with proprietary technology to protect, and always a market for such products, but I do think these ought to be he exception rather than the rule, to simplify the field for those poor newbies who hit far too many mysteries when they're thinking about buying their bike, and the perceived risk of investing a lot of cash in a product from a relatively small company.

 

[Straylight]

It wouldn't be possible to Standardise for all battery chemistry's as many have found. Putting lifepo4 on an ebike designed for Li-ion or lipo would result in handlebar power indicator's giving inaccurate readings. The lower fully charged voltage of Lifepo4 would cause lights to drop out quicker initially and then the higher low voltage cutout would cause lights to show power still available after the bms low volt protection has cut.

Fully charged 36v lifepo4 approx 40.5volt[42.00v for Li-ion and Lipo]
Low voltage cutoff for a 36v lifepo4 approx 36v[31.5v for Li-ion and Lipo]

Also if you put Li-ion or Lipo on an ebike designed for lifepo4 the controller would cut the power around 36volt resulting in you not getting full capacity from your battery.

I suppose these minor issue's could be gotten over.

Another feature that could be added to a programmable controller, should therefore be presets for common battery types?

 

[Oxygen Bicycles]

Hi Straylight,

The biggest problem I see, is that all the bikes will end up looking the same....You already see many Wisper clones operating in the market. A key differential between some brands is the battery style and positioning, from Cytronex who try to hide, as do Powabyke with the X bike to our extreme of the large box which is part of the design.

I see how these proposals make sense for entry level bikes at sub £1000 but the typical customer (from our own research) who purchases a premium bike is very much motivated by design and being different. Either they want it discreet or pronounced.

I think this is the key part here, different price points have different consumer expectations. If consumers want the cheapest option, then it is there already with standard unbranded batteries etc. For those who want something different then there are the more expensive products that we and some of our competitors produce. This is the same in any market segment.

Thanks
Mark

I don't think all the bikes will have to look the same by just having a compatible battery. Obviously there will always be a room for innovators to locate the battery somewhere else. Perhaps it's the customer that could make a decision on what type of the ebike he/she wants.

I know that there are people who just fancy an ebike as form of tool that will do the job from A to B and will be reasonable in maintenance.

Those who wish to have a fancy gadget will always go for a Ferrari, don't they?

all the best

Andrew

 

[Ultra Motor]

I don't think all the bikes will have to look the same by just having a compatible battery. Obviously there will always be a room for innovators to locate the battery somewhere else. Perhaps it's the customer that could make a decision on what type of the ebike he/she wants.

I know that there are people who just fancy an ebike as form of tool that will do the job from A to B and will be reasonable in maintenance.

Those who wish to have a fancy gadget will always go for a Ferrari, don't they?

all the best

Andrew

Hi Andrew

My point exactly, some will want the cheaper option that will just get them from A2B and other will want to spend more money for better components and design.

Thanks
Mark