Elation or Cyclone Chain Drive Kit?

[emtemt]

Hi

I have decided that I am going to fit a geared chain drive kit so I get to use the existing bike gears. I have tried a hub motor bike and a Panasonic drive bike on the long steep hill outside our front door and they both fall short of what I am after.

I have narrowed my search down to the Elation or Cyclone kits. My concern with both of them is that the controller appears to be built into the motor.

Has any one any experience of these?

Does any one know if they are both using the same motor as the Cyclone is a lot lower cost than the Elation.


Regards

Ian

 

[flecc]

I don't personally know the Elation Ian, but it looks suspiciously similar to Cyclone's latest secondary chain unit. I doubt there would be much to choose between them, Cyclone's lower price probably due to their long time in this market with this basic kit.

We have some members successfully using the Cyclone kit, the main criticism of it being inadequate water and corrosion prevention, important in the exposed areas it's mounted in, subject to front tyre spray. A bit of waterproofing and sometimes a splash guard soon puts that right though.
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[daniel.weck]

I don't personally know the Elation Ian, but it looks suspiciously similar to Cyclone's latest secondary chain unit. I doubt there would be much to choose between them,
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Reading through the Elation kit specifications and looking at the photos, I would be a bit worried about the asymmetrical crankset arrangement (or is it just me ?):

Videos and Pictures

 

[flecc]

It's the same on the Cyclone Dan, the kits come with a longer BB spindle and outwardly bent cranks. Probably ok in practice, the Panasonic units are much wider than standard BBs and nobody ever mentions that.
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[OneWayTraffic]

Here's a review of the Elation. Worth reading every post in it as several owners chip in.

I think that the waterproofing has been improved over the Cyclone, and the mounting system is better and cleaner-the battery just sits right over the motor in the triangle. According to the maker, it's weatherproof, though not immersion proof.

Endless-sphere.com • View topic - eLation 200watt kit (Australia)

 

[daniel.weck]

It's the same on the Cyclone Dan, the kits come with a longer BB spindle and outwardly bent cranks. Probably ok in practice, the Panasonic units are much wider than standard BBs and nobody ever mentions that.
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The Elation crankset looks wider and slightly asymmetric, but it could be the angle in the photo. However here's what the vendor himself says:

"
Yes the elation is similiar set up to cyclone, both uses headline motors, however i think elation has superior motor mount and crank/freewheel system.
Cyclones three crankwheel version has 44t for drive and 44 and 24t crankrings for pedaling.
Elation v2 has 4 crankrings, 48t for motor and 48 ,38 and 28t for pedaling, all interchangable and replacable
"

Photos:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/4233-elation-cyclone-chain-drive-kit.html#post62657

 

[flecc]

Yes, that 4th ring could add a 1/4" necessitating a touch wider on the cranks.
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[Andrew harvey]

The Elation kit looks more expensive, but it does come with a frame mounted battery pack. It seems quieter and has a motor clutch.
I've had more time on an Elation than a Cyclone, it was a very nice bit of kit but noisier than a hub.

 

[tepol]

I don't personally know the Elation Ian, but it looks suspiciously similar to Cyclone's latest secondary chain unit. I doubt there would be much to choose between them, Cyclone's lower price probably due to their long time in this market with this basic kit.

We have some members successfully using the Cyclone kit, the main criticism of it being inadequate water and corrosion prevention, important in the exposed areas it's mounted in, subject to front tyre spray. A bit of waterproofing and sometimes a splash guard soon puts that right though.
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Is this still an issue with these kits ?

I noticed they had one that was very appealing for my foldable at 500w though if its only chain driven then its not going to be much use i.e. if i need to already be peddling at certain speed before it goes.

 

[flecc]

I've seen no evidence that they've improved the finish and waterproofing so assume no change there, but they can be improved as said with some sealing and protection.

The pedelec bits are an option, normally as supplied without it they run on throttle only from a standstill, no need to pedal up to speed.
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[mechaniker]

..... they run on throttle only from a standstill, no need to pedal up to speed.
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hi, you can also order the pedal and speedlimiter set on cyclone, it is no so expencive.
Then the throttle works only when pedal, if you stop pedal the throttle/motor also stop working. In this way the set fullfill european law

I had setup an sensorless crazyman controller to the cyclonemotor it is in my eyes the better solution because the controller inside the Motor have a tempreature problem on stepp hills.
The 500Watt version have a problem of overheating and brocken planetary gears and not stabil freewheel

the cyclone-motor is for my ears to noisy, in the City it is´nt a problem but when you want cruise in the nature, the motor is´nt a good solution
I had selled a lot of cyclone but every customer complain about the noise.

sure, on steep hill the chain motor is much better as an hubmotor, this is the good point on cyclone. It is the only ready to build-in chaindrive-set for a normal bike.

regards
frank

 

[tepol]

hi, you can also order the pedal and speedlimiter set on cyclone, it is no so expencive.
Then the throttle works only when pedal, if you stop pedal the throttle/motor also stop working. In this way the set fullfill european law

I had setup an sensorless crazyman controller to the cyclonemotor it is in my eyes the better solution because the controller inside the Motor have a tempreature problem on stepp hills.
The 500Watt version have a problem of overheating and brocken planetary gears and not stabil freewheel


frank

Is this a problem unique to just 500 watt motor , or to other versions as well ? ( Im assuming it is )

Thanks Flecc / Frank for the replies.

t

 

[mechaniker]

Is this a problem unique to just 500 watt motor , or to other versions as well ? ( Im assuming it is )

the 250watt version had not this heat-problems this motor works well and the plantary is stabil but the noise is the same.

I had driven this motor by 36v with crazyman controller and pedal-assist because i dont like the throttle-grip, it makes my hand tired.
with 36v the motr runs much faster and powerfull


regards
frank

 

[flecc]

Like Frank I haven't heard of overheating on the lower powered versions, 180 to 360 watt, but some complain the 180/250 watt ones lack power. That's probably more noticeable when using them as throttle only motors without the pedal control kit.

I agree also about the noise levels, a bit like the old Currie motors in this respect and above what I like to hear.
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[tepol]

Like Frank I haven't heard of overheating on the lower powered versions, 180 to 360 watt, but some complain the 180/250 watt ones lack power. That's probably more noticeable when using them as throttle only motors without the pedal control kit.

I agree also about the noise levels, a bit like the old Currie motors in this respect and above what I like to hear.
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Whats the running cost of replacing these things battery or going the DIY route , like with the Brampton ?

I think someone mentioned the Elation kits seem to be quieter, though I thought they were basically the same thing.

Good God !!

Please tell me this isnt what it sounds like

I'd make the kiddies round here wets themselves if I went out on something like this on Halloween



t

 

[tepol]

This doesnt seem to bad at all , but I could live with the noise I suppose , also I noticed the guy in this video seems to be using those Ping batteries the folk were mentioning on brompton / DIY thread.

Hard to tell from this , but it looks pretty impressive , in spite of the obvious differences , considering its off road compared to this.

And that guy in the other video ( the cyclone one ) surely cant be pedalling.

tepol

 

[flecc]

The true noise is roughly in the middle of both of those examples for the Cyclone, very noticeable but not impossible to live with. The irregular whining quality is characteristic of the internal gearing on these. The Cylone video of climbing St Pauls Hill is mainly on motor power, any pedalling rather token.

I've seen past comment to avoid Cyclone's batteries, Li Ping's or other known ones probably a better bet. I remember Cyclone not recommending their li-ion battery with the 500 watt and more powerful versions, so they are obviously hungry and you should ensure the battery you get has adequate current delivery ability.
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[tepol]

The true noise is roughly in the middle of both of those examples for the Cyclone, very noticeable but not impossible to live with. The irregular whining quality is characteristic of the internal gearing on these. The Cylone video of climbing St Pauls Hill is mainly on motor power, any pedalling rather token.

I've seen past comment to avoid Cyclone's batteries, Li Ping's or other known ones probably a better bet. I remember Cyclone not recommending their li-ion battery with the 500 watt and more powerful versions, so they are obviously hungry and you should ensure the battery you get has adequate current delivery ability.
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Perhaps the battery might explain the issues Frank was talking about ?

 

[tepol]

The true noise is roughly in the middle of both of those examples for the Cyclone, very noticeable but not impossible to live with. The irregular whining quality is characteristic of the internal gearing on these. The Cylone video of climbing St Pauls Hill is mainly on motor power, any pedalling rather token.

I've seen past comment to avoid Cyclone's batteries, Li Ping's or other known ones probably a better bet. I remember Cyclone not recommending their li-ion battery with the 500 watt and more powerful versions, so they are obviously hungry and you should ensure the battery you get has adequate current delivery ability.
.

i can see what you mean now about - not recommending thier own batteries.

For the 500w kits it seems the 24v 20 ahr is best .

They claim you get over 45 miles too on level ground at cruising speed ( Which Im assuming means as a pedelec )

If I get more powerful motor somehow I could start realistically looking at getting the same sort of milage i.e. without having to purely pedal all the time ?

The strange thing is I notice that the europen site offers kits from 650 w up to 1200 , but not the US or Canda .


Forgive me for being unable to see the obvious , but why ?

tepol

 

[flecc]

The strange thing is I notice that the europen site offers kits from 650 w up to 1200 , but not the US or Canda .


Forgive me for being unable to see the obvious , but why ?

tepol

I've noticed this anomally before. The only thing I can think of to account for it is the fact that Cyclone got a very bad reputation in the USA long ago as a result of unreliability, poor support, waterproofing problems and corrosion. Some dealers refused to touch them any more. Perhaps sticking to the lower powers gives better reliability and less comebacks there now.

One thing that irritates is the name changes of the principal guy there in Taiwan. When mainly selling to the US and European markets he called himself Paul, after entering the Mexican market he changed that to Paco, but his real name is Ping-Yueh Lin. Not the sort of straight dealing I like.
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