Electric bikes banned in Shenzen China, How absurd!!

Come July 1st electric bikes will be banned in Shenzen, China because according to China, electric bikes have caused more than 15% of accidents resulting in 64 people dead and leaving 233 injured, and China’s reasoning behind these accidents? The electric bikes are too quiet!

Yes you read that right, a mode of transportation that is green and is quiet in a country of a billion people, has been banned. Those familiar with China should already know that the bicycle has been one of the main modes of transportation due to them being more affordable than a car, and in a country of a billion people, even having half a billion cars on the roads would just be insane in terms of traffic jams, so not only are bicycles cheaper, they’re more efficient. Bicycles are also slow which brought about the electric bike which is a faster option compared to the bicycle, while maintaining a level of affordability.

This decision was also apparently made without any public input whatsoever, which is something that should have been put out to the public first as they could have provided some solutions to the “silence” of their electric bikes, i.e. adding horns, bells, a motor soundbox or anything, so many possibilities but yet none were proposed. Either way it’s still not a total loss as bicycles are still going strong, just that riders will now have to get used to going back to a slower pace.

Ubergizmo.com

nonsense

Hi David,

What a nonsense with this ban. If the Chinese population would do just two things the number off accidents and ultimately deaths on the road would decrease drastically.

I mean here:

1. Wearing a helmet ( I've never seen any Chinese on ebikes wearing helmets and I really spent a lot of time in China by now)

2. Following the traffic rules and the highway code. It's sad to say but in China none of the ebikers follows the rules. I always have to cross the road on the red light because going through the zebra crossing on the green light is a suicide. Everyone will ride you off.

all the best

Andrew

Of course this has a connection with tha fact that the Chinese assisted speed limit of 12 mph has always been ignored, 20 mph and more being common. When the authorities tried to crack down a bit recently, they were defied, so I don't find this Shenzhen reaction entirely surprising. Chinese authorities don't usually tolerate defiance gladly.

There is a safety issue with the silence of e-vehicles of course, our trams in Croydon have hit and even killed people who haven't heard them approaching as they walked across the on-road tracks. The answer is as David says, adding noise, and the new Nissan Leaf e-car has a permanent artificial sound added when being driven.

I can't see this ban being in any way influential in other markets though, its happened elsewhere in other Chinese cities before and had no effect overseas.

.

Edited June 23, 201114 yr by flecc

We have a bike path along the sea front at Swansea. It is marked in cycle and pedestrian lanes, but unfortunately, non cyclists think of it as a promenade although on the County map it is the Swansea Bay cycleway and therefore a highway. There is constant conflict between cyclists who obey the rules and walkers who frequently seem totally unaware that they have strayed onto the bike lane. Not too bad if you can ding your bell in time, but often they walk out without looking at the last moment.My wife once hit a woman who did this. As my wife picked herself up fom where she had fallen, she received a mouthful of abuse from the woman and her husband who stated that cyclists should be banned from the 'Promenade'

(It never has been a promenade, it is the old, re-surfaced track of the Mumbles Railway)

Perhaps bikes are too quiet, I wonder if deaf people get involved in these accidents, or if not expecting to hear anything, they always look around?

Yep this is crazy. There also needs to be more pedestrian awareness. The public has to take note that they must look with their eyes as well as their ears.

I agree Mark. Trouble is the public have had a century of indoctrination that vehicles are noisy, so one can just cross the road on ears only. As every city cyclist knows, they do just that all the time.

The quandary is, should we educate, or should we just add artificial noise? The trouble with the latter is that it's virtually encouraging people not to bother to look when crossing, which ultimately is silly and dangerous.

We have a bike path along the sea front at Swansea. It is marked in cycle and pedestrian lanes, but unfortunately, non cyclists think of it as a promenade although on the County map it is the Swansea Bay cycleway and therefore a highway. There is constant conflict between cyclists who obey the rules and walkers who frequently seem totally unaware that they have strayed onto the bike lane. Not too bad if you can ding your bell in time, but often they walk out without looking at the last moment.My wife once hit a woman who did this. As my wife picked herself up fom where she had fallen, she received a mouthful of abuse from the woman and her husband who stated that cyclists should be banned from the 'Promenade'

(It never has been a promenade, it is the old, re-surfaced track of the Mumbles Railway)

Perhaps bikes are too quiet, I wonder if deaf people get involved in these accidents, or if not expecting to hear anything, they always look around?

Yep- I almost mowed someone down in London earlier in the week. The traffic was at a standstill and they didn't think to look for a bicycle or motorcycle!

I agree Mark. Trouble is the public have had a century of indoctrination that vehicles are noisy, so one can just cross the road on ears only. As every city cyclist knows, they do just that all the time.

 

The quandary is, should we educate, or should we just add artificial noise? The trouble with the latter is that it's virtually encouraging people not to bother to look when crossing, which ultimately is silly and dangerous.

I think we should educate. I have ridden motorcycles for many years in the countryside and cities like London. Even with noise they still walk out. There are many other noises in cities, builders, bands, busy traffic on one side, standstill the other- so it can't be relied upon. People need to learn to look. Only my view

Ultimately that's the wisest approach Mark, but of course it's very slow acting and the public aren't very good at learning new tricks. Hence the appeal of the expediency of adding noise, which would work here ok.

Given that added noise is usually in the form of electronic buzzers, in China the outcome at junctions could be horrifying. Hordes of e-bikes all buzzing at various frequencies in a dim of discordant odd harmonics, I'd hate to be there!

Yep- I agree. I think it has to be combination of the pair.

I also agree the buzzing would be insane! It would sound like a swarm of bees after you! I'm not sure how it would affect hearing aids too!!

Hi David,

 

What a nonsense with this ban. If the Chinese population would do just two things the number off accidents and ultimately deaths on the road would decrease drastically.

 

I mean here:

1. Wearing a helmet ( I've never seen any Chinese on ebikes wearing helmets and I really spent a lot of time in China by now)

2. Following the traffic rules and the highway code. It's sad to say but in China none of the ebikers follows the rules. I always have to cross the road on the red light because going through the zebra crossing on the green light is a suicide. Everyone will ride you off.

 

all the best

Andrew

Absolutely Andrew and maybe they should not allow a whole family and the dog to be on the same electric bike at the same time whist pushing their mate along on his non powered bike with the riders foot! It also may be an idea to stop them riding without lights in the middle of the night to conserve power!?

The Chinese need to look at road safety in general rather than making such ill advised knee jerk decisions. Some poor minor official was probably given the task of reducing deaths in Shenzen and decided to ban electric bikes because he had a near miss on the way home the previous evening. That's Communism for you!

All the best

David

Ultimately that's the wisest approach Mark, but of course it's very slow acting and the public aren't very good at learning new tricks. Hence the appeal of the expediency of adding noise, which would work here ok.

 

Given that added noise is usually in the form of electronic buzzers, in China the outcome at junctions could be horrifying. Hordes of e-bikes all buzzing at various frequencies in a dim of discordant odd harmonics, I'd hate to be there!

I find a lolly pop stick rigged up to ping on the spokes does the trick Tony!

Edited June 23, 201114 yr by Wisper Bikes

 

I find a lolly pop stick rigged up to ping on the spokes does the trick Tony!

As kids we used to use the cardboard of cigarette packets for this David, very satisfying slightly deep engine noise, but we'd have to search hard for a fag packet these days.

Reminds me of the ingenious things we used to make with those fag packets. A model tank from a whole ten packet, a jumping frog from a twenty inner, and from a ten pack inner a very rude little man to make the girls shriek!

You are right Tony, it was cigarette packs, I remember the frog and rude man, but I didn't ever make a tank! Now what did we use lollipop sticks for...... ah yes, we used to weave them into early frisbys!

Happy days!

Off at a bit of a tangent - how refreshing to have the Chinese Government so careful of human life ...

It would be if true, but I suspect there may be other motives. There have long been e-bike bans on some city routes and even some whole cities in China, but the stated motive then was always that they get in the way of cars and disrupt free flow. I wouldn't bet against that being a major reason again, given the huge uptake of cars running on their new multi-lane city highways.

Looks like some US based websites are talking up the scale of the ban - it is for a 6 month trial period in certain busy areas only of a large town where there have been a lot of collisions and the widespread use of illegally powered bikes.

The Chinese traffic authorities have been concerned over unregistered high power bikes and the attendant rise in RTCs for some years. A perfectly understandable annoyance of many folk there, both in authority and the victims (which would be the same the world over) is that young riders are being involved in RTCs with pedestrians and other cyclists, are simply making off without reporting the incident and because of lack of registration are escaping judgement and justice.

I don't think the Chinese are that are daft to remove a useful mode of transport completely - what they are doing is giving e-bike riders a harsh warning to clue up and ride more safely if they wish to continue riding their machines, and if they want to have higher powered ones to get whatever license category is required for a moped, and have helmet and a number plate making them accountable for the safe use of their vehicle. Lots of other East and SE Asian nations have done this in recent years, both with e-bikes and also petrol powered bicycles and small mopeds, some of which were widely ridden without helmet, license or registration in contravention of traffic laws.

It appears they may even be trying to nudge manufacturers into following the EU standards or something approaching them.

Electric bike bans spark debate

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/cndy/2011-06/20/content_12731933.htm

Edited June 23, 201114 yr by Alex728

Hi

5 hundred thousand non polluting Electric bikes replaced by petrol mopeds now how many will Die from Respirator problems or run over . A lot more than on electric bikes also they don't say how many died on pedal bikes the world has gone MAD

BUT stop using 120 Million Electric bikes Total Madness

How about this then they mainly use cheap lead acid battery's that last approx 3 months

That is 480 Million lead acid battery's a YEAR dumped in ditches polluting the water supply with LEAD and acid

Frank

I think we should educate. I have ridden motorcycles for many years in the countryside and cities like London. Even with noise they still walk out. There are many other noises in cities, builders, bands, busy traffic on one side, standstill the other- so it can't be relied upon. People need to learn to look. Only my view

Well, we didn't have to wait long for an answer Mark, just 5 hours exactly.

At 17.40 on the PM news program, BBC Radio 4, it was announced that the government are shutting down the COI (Central Office of Information), the body which makes and commissions the government's civil educational advertising. This is of course an economy measure.

The chances of a minority matter like a Stop!, Listen!, and Look! campaign being made are thus practically nil in the foreseeable future.

How about this then they mainly use cheap lead acid battery's that last approx 3 months

 

That is 480 Million lead acid battery's a YEAR dumped in ditches polluting the water supply with LEAD and acid

 

Frank

That is also a problem as the small batteries aren't wanted by the scrap men - they have a glut of better Western scrap thanks to our throwaway society being "greenwashed" recently so folk are encouraged to recycle without a domestic outlet for much of the scrap.

I still think this issue is being spun a bit by Western media and minds, folk projecting their dislike of China's political system into their views whereas the reality is this is a somewhat mundane domestic issue of traffic laws in a sovereign nation, which most countries have been through at some point in their development as road usage patterns change.

Interestingly, if you read the articles in the China Daily newspaper which must be approved by the state if not overtly controlled by them, the bike dealers feel safe enough to openly state their anger and defiance of the authorities to the journalists of a globally published news outlet.

Given what can happen to dissenters in China, that the dealers are brazen enough to do this does make me feel that this is much more the start of a "negotiation/debate" process between road users, authorities and manufacturers than a pernmanent blanket ban on e-bikes.

I can however see why "Western" manufacturers are jittery as a sudden greater shift to BS EN whatever type "Western" bikes by domestic Chinese manufacturers (as opposed to these being specifically made on contract for export) may of course mean more being exported and could start eroding the slim margins of incumbent manufacturers..

Edited June 24, 201114 yr by Alex728

Hi In China if you don't obey the government you end up going by BUS

USATODAY.com - China makes ultimate punishment mobile

Frank

The ban in Shenzhen was inevitable-I don't think it absurd.

David,

I think the problem of e-bikes in China is of absolutely no control or road safety practices.

I was staying in the Sheraton Hotel in Houjie,very close to Shenzhen. Anyone who knows that major junction knows it's a 6 lane road in 4 directions,to get across that road is a life threatening event for the traffic comes from every direction,the lions share of the traffic are high speed silent e-bikes.

I was once waiting for the lights to change red and in a crowd of dozens of people,the lights changed and suddenly an e-bike moped style came the wrong way round the corner and didn't realise the lights had changed,he swerved round me but hit the young guy to my left,sadly the lad was badly hurt and taken to hospital.

This story highlights the problem in China,these e-bikes are too heavy(mainly old lead acid batteries),ridden by untrained riders who often ignore traffic rules,they are so quiet you cannot hear them coming.

I don't blaim the authorities banning them,they should have introduced EN15194 rules years ago and policed their application and maybe the outcome of this ban will be some sensible restrictions and training.

You have to understand that most of these machines are more akin to small mopeds and scooters than bicycles.

Sorry David I don't think this ban is absurd and I know you spend a lot of time in China,you must have seen this coming.

Thank goodness our authorities used sense when drafting the EN 15194 rules,with luck this may be our protection from these bikes being over policed in Europe and allowing us the freedom to enjoy these bikes without similar intervention.

While on that point I am fed up many on this forum who want to overpower these machines with illegal high powered motors,if there is ever an accident with one of these high powered bikes it could mean that we would all be 'tarred with the same brush' and current legal bikes being reclassified as mopeds.

Dave Elderield

MD,Kudos Cycles

Hi David

I absolutely understand your point.

The reason I beleive the outright ban on electric bikes absurd has been well demonstrated in you post. The main problem is not the bikes but the way they are ridden. No one in China seems to take highway regulations seriously, this is the problem that needs solving. I would bet that 99% of all electric bike related injuries are due to a flagrant disrespect of the rules of the road.

All the best David

David,I still think the power/weight of the bikes is wrong

David,

I agree with you about lack of adherance to highway regs in China but I disagree about the the bikes-the bike in my story spun across the road and I walked over to assist the rider and pick his bike up-it was very heavy and very powerful,it was difficult to stop. If these bikes had only 250 watt motors,weight less than 30 kgs and max 15mph assisted speed they would all be travelling slower,accidents would be rarer-perhaps no more than with conventional bikes and fatalaties considerably reduced. But no asian would buy one because compared to these high powered bikes,which are really electric motorbikes, they would be considered slow and boring.

On this website are suppliers offering 1000 watt and even 1800 watt e-bikes,albeit they state for off road use only and yet their customers state in testimonials how exciting these bikes are to use on the roads...thank goodness these machines are relatively rare for if they were numerate we could be faced with similar problems to China-if you want to go fast buy a Ducati motorbike!

As BEBA Chair I do expect you to openly condemn these illegal bikes and we all know the suppliers who are pushing their usage before an accident affects us all. Last week,I accompanied a prospective customer along the Herne Bay sea promenade,a sparkling day with the tide in,smell of the sea,the electric motor working hard against the headwind but it was so enjoyable,we carefully enjoyed the experience with walkers

enjoying the bracing conditions-I cannot imagine we would have been so welcome on 1000 watt electric bikes doing 30 mph! and that is what we should all avoid-the irresponsible and selfish few could spoil the enjoyment of the responsible majority.

Dave Elderfield

MD,Kudos Cycles