Freego and Sheffield hills

[Sheffmax]

I live within a mile of The Peak District and have been put off cycling there due to the steep hill home which I have to climb whichever way I go, whether it be into the countryside or down into Hillsborough.

After much prevarication, and persuasion from my other half, I decided to take the plunge and get an electric bike. Some research and a visit to South Yorkshire Electric Bike Centre resulted in my purchasing a Freego Eagle.

I have had several runs out of 10 miles or thereabouts without any problems except for a rubbing noise from the front brakes.

However, before I'd had the bike a fortnight I had a problem at the 12 mile mark when the motor simply stopped. The battery indicator had been showing between 2 and 3 lights up to that point and 4 lights when not under power. I switched the motor off and carried on, every so often I stopped and switched the motor back on and the indicator showed 4 lights but as soon as I applied power the motor would cut out and all the lights disappeared. This happened at least 4 times in the 2 mile journey home.

I should point out that I had fully charged the battery the night before.

When I finally reached home and switched it on for the last time the battery indicator was still showing 4 lights.

SYEBC are bringing out a replacement controller next week which they assure me will solve the problem.

So far, I've really enjoyed going out into the countryside and look forward to longer rides once the problem's sorted.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Sounds like another key-switch not properly soldered. I've already personally fixed four with that fault. All had your symptoms. God knows how many others are out there like that. The cause of your problem, however, could be a number of other things, but most likely a faulty connection tween the battery cells and controller

Maybe SYEBC know something from previous experience, but a new controller wouldn't be my choice of what to send to repair that fault.

 

[Sheffmax]

Thanks d8veh. The man from SYEBC came out yesterday and swapped out the controller and, after talking to Freego, couriered out a replacement battery today. I've just been out for an 18 mile spin round Bradfield and Strines reservoirs with no problems, hopefully that's it. Battery and controller are to be sent back to Freego and I may, or may not, be told what the problem was.

I'm still not used to the battery level going down to 1 light and then having all 4 lights come back on when I get back home.

 

[Sheffmax]

OK so far with a couple of hundred miles on the bike but there is one niggle. On steeper hills using the throttle doesn't seem to achieve anything. The power comes on but all it can achieve is a snail's pace which all but threatens to have me overbalanced. On the flat, using just the throttle I can get up to 18mph so I'm assuming it doesn't like Sheffield's hills. Has anyone else got an issue with lack of power on really steep hills?

 

[Alan_F]

I live just a few miles further north on the Wakefield side of Barnsley and had similar problems to solve - a hill that I have to negotiate on the way back home from Wakefield is marked as 14%, there are other climbs that feel as steep or steeper but no road sign giving slope information!!

My first EBike (36v 9Amp 250watt hub motor) was hard work on the steeper climbs, I had real problems keeping going, at even 4 MPH the power just had no impact on the climb and I had to work very hard to make it to the top and the throttle had no impact at all - ie the usual problem of a hub motor passing its peak.

However my next bike was the Ezee Forza Mk2. What an amazing difference I can climb at a good speed with noticeable support from the motor - if I go from assist level 3 to 4 to 5 you can actually feel a kick of power; its just like having another set of gears!
I only use the throttle if setting off e.g. at a junction on a slope to help get me going.
I don't know how Ezee manage to do it but they have a hub motor bike that is very good at climbing - perhaps John can explain!!!!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You can improve the hill-climbing speed a lot by soldering the shunt in your controller to increase the amps. If you look at your controller, which is in the compartment under the battery, it will probably have the current written on it. If it's 15amps or less, you can increase it by about 30% quite safely at the expense of slightly less range, but with the 16 aH battery that wouldn't be a problem. If you have the 10aH battery, 17 amps would be the limit because it probably can't supply as much current as the 16aH one.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I don't know how Ezee manage to do it but they have a hub motor bike that is very good at climbing - perhaps John can explain!!!!

Hill-climbing ability is more or less directly proportional to the amps given by the controller. Many hub-motored Chinese bikes have controllers that give between 12 and 15 amps. The Ezee Forza gets 25 amps. It also has a larger motor that can run happily at that higher current. Now you can see how it climbs so well.

It's a shame that German bike magazine didn't include cheaper bikes in that mountain-climbing test. I think the Ezee Forza would have blitzed the rest, and the Kudos Tornado would've done pretty well too. It would be nice to see them compared against Bosch bikes in such a test.

 

[Sheffmax]

You can improve the hill-climbing speed a lot by soldering the shunt in your controller to increase the amps. If you look at your controller, which is in the compartment under the battery, it will probably have the current written on it. If it's 15amps or less, you can increase it by about 30% quite safely at the expense of slightly less range, but with the 16 aH battery that wouldn't be a problem. If you have the 10aH battery, 17 amps would be the limit because it probably can't supply as much current as the 16aH one.

I have the 16aH battery and I'm not sure what you mean by soldering the shunt. Also, would doing something like this not affect the warranty?

Thanks for all the suggestions as to what I should have bought but having only had my Eagle, from new, for 6 weeks I'm unlikely to be looking to change it in the foreseeable future.

I should add that it isn't a major problem and if it's not uncommon then I'll have to accept that I'm going to have to work harder on some hills than others.

 

[Eaglerider]

OK so far with a couple of hundred miles on the bike but there is one niggle. On steeper hills using the throttle doesn't seem to achieve anything. The power comes on but all it can achieve is a snail's pace which all but threatens to have me overbalanced. On the flat, using just the throttle I can get up to 18mph so I'm assuming it doesn't like Sheffield's hills. Has anyone else got an issue with lack of power on really steep hills?

Hi Sheffmax,

You have bought the right bike, but it is only a 250 watt machine as standard and will not carry you up steep hills without significant pedalling power. You need to try and maintain at least 8 mph by pedalling on max assist level. Below this speed the motor is not able to provide as much torque. I have an Eagle as well and would rate it as a good hill climber.

 

[Sheffmax]

Hi Sheffmax,

You have bought the right bike, but it is only a 250 watt machine as standard and will not carry you up steep hills without significant pedalling power. You need to try and maintain at least 8 mph by pedalling on max assist level. Below this speed the motor is not able to provide as much torque. I have an Eagle as well and would rate it as a good hill climber.

Thanks, that's reassuring. I love the bike and like being able to get home without trembling calf muscles. I used it on Friday to 'pop' down to the shops in Hillsborough and the climb back is 2 1/2 miles of a continuous uphill climb which the bike managed effortlessly.

 

[RobF]

Thanks, that's reassuring. I love the bike and like being able to get home without trembling calf muscles. I used it on Friday to 'pop' down to the shops in Hillsborough and the climb back is 2 1/2 miles of a continuous uphill climb which the bike managed effortlessly.

Doesn't sound like there's much wrong with it, as Eaglerider says, most 250w bikes will need a fair bit of effort from the rider on a steep hill.

I've not tried a Freego on a steep hill, but you may find it performs about the same if you put it on maximum assist level and not bother with the throttle.

In other words, the throttle won't add power in those circumstances.

Also, it's easy to break the throttle when pedalling hard because your hand grip is naturally tighter.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I have the 16aH battery and I'm not sure what you mean by soldering the shunt. Also, would doing something like this not affect the warranty?

It could affect the warranty. Let's say the spokes started to break because the motor wheel hadn't been built properly. They could argue that it was the increased torque that did it.

The controller measures the difference in voltage between each end of the shunt to know how much current is flowing. Soldering the shunt makes the difference lower, so the CPU allows more current. This is what's involved:

Before



After

 

[Cricket]

Hill-climbing ability is more or less directly proportional to the amps given by the controller. Many hub-motored Chinese bikes have controllers that give between 12 and 15 amps. The Ezee Forza gets 25 amps. It also has a larger motor that can run happily at that higher current. Now you can see how it climbs so well.

Sorry to hijack this thread but I'm also interested in hill climbing ability of various electric bikes. After a lot of very helpful advice on here I've decided to go for a 20" folding electric bicycle but really do need one that can get me up and down slopes and small hills (nothing quite as grand as the Peak District!) using the throttle only. I'm pretty much down to about four bikes which after lots of reading on here have the 36v 250w combo (which I believe is the highest levels allowed legally in the UK)? Two of them have batteries of 9 or 10ah but with the possibility to upgrade to 16Ah.

Can anyone tell me if the battery upgrade will help on hill climbs or is it just range? How do I find out the amp levels of the controller - they don't mention that in the spec?

The bikes are the Volt Metro, the Wisper 806 Classic, Juicy Bikes Urban and the Kudos Secret. Can anyone more technically minded than me or with experience of these bikes point me in the right direction thanks.

I saw a YouTube video of the Volt and they were whizzing around without pedalling but it was mainly flat terrain with only the slightest of inclines.

 

[JuicyBike]

Sorry to hijack this thread but I'm also interested in hill climbing ability of various electric bikes. After a lot of very helpful advice on here I've decided to go for a 20" folding electric bicycle but really do need one that can get me up and down slopes and small hills (nothing quite as grand as the Peak District!) using the throttle only. I'm pretty much down to about four bikes which after lots of reading on here have the 36v 250w combo (which I believe is the highest levels allowed legally in the UK)? Two of them have batteries of 9 or 10ah but with the possibility to upgrade to 16Ah.

Can anyone tell me if the battery upgrade will help on hill climbs or is it just range? How do I find out the amp levels of the controller - they don't mention that in the spec?

The bikes are the Volt Metro, the Wisper 806 Classic, Juicy Bikes Urban and the Kudos Secret. Can anyone more technically minded than me or with experience of these bikes point me in the right direction thanks.

I saw a YouTube video of the Volt and they were whizzing around without pedalling but it was mainly flat terrain with only the slightest of inclines.

The smaller the wheel the greater the hill climbing ability, in general, and that's certainly the case with the Juicy Urban, which can achieve steeper hills on throttle alone than the larger wheeled bikes in our range.

The larger batteries mainly increase the range, though a larger battery will also maintain the initial, "freshly charged" and zappy state for longer.

You may like to know that all bikes from Juicy come with an option of 10, 12, 14 and 16AH batteries - not just small or large. So you can find the right size for you, without humping around more than you need (and only buying what you need too ).

We have few 2013 Urbans left and these are being replaced with our latest Click range bikes. The Click range is about to be listed at our website, but some retailers now have them to test ride. Our Click bikes have improvements that are designed to make future upgrades really easy!

If you let me know where in the country you are I can point you to our nearest retailer with the latest Click models.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

If you want to ride up hills without pedalling, you need a proper high-torque motor. So, before buying, make sure you try it on a hill.

How much do you weigh?

You can also save some time and trouble by asking the dealers if their bike will take X kg up a hill of slope Y % without pedalling. Substitute your weight for X and the steepest hill you want to go up for Y. Put bluntly like that, they may not be so forward in recommending their bikes.

To answer your question about batteries. You need to know what cells are in them. Sometimes the larger batteries have cells with lower discharge rate the the equivalent smaller battery

 

[Cricket]

OK thanks for letting me know about the Urban range Juicy Bike Bob. I'll look out for the Click shortly. I've checked your list of dealers and am nowhere near any of them I think (being in the Surrey/Hampshire area) and I'm not in a position to travel more than a few miles from home. So that might make a difference. Will have to see.

d8veh - you are a mine of information. When I finally make it to a bike shop they had better know their stuff with regard to battery cells and motors!

I'm about 62 kilos/137 lbs last time I checked but I don't have any idea what percentage inclines I'm dealing with other than very small and short/medium hills. I don't expect to put the bike through its paces too much but can the average ebike manage a throttle tug here or there?

 

[Cricket]

I forgot to say but I was also looking at the Ezee Dahon Bullet which, having just checked, has a 20 amp motor. That seems quite good for hills potentially - is it legal? Nice looking bike.

Having said that there's no chance of getting to Milton Keynes and I wouldn't buy over the net without trying. Also, doesn't having the battery on the rear rack make for some strange weight distribution? I'm never too keen on that (looks wise either) although would be happy if I could put the battery in a pannier bag/box instead.

Anyway, I digress...

 

[Deleted member 4366]

At 62kg, you've got a much better chance. I think you'll be OK on those bikes you've shortlisted. I'm 100kg, so I need nearly twice the power that you do.

I never cease to be surprised about how little some dealers know about their bikes. How many amps the controller gives is an important characteristic. It has a direct effect on hill-climbing and range.. If the amps is high, then you need a decent battery to be able to provide them.

 

[JuicyBike]

OK thanks for letting me know about the Urban range Juicy Bike Bob. I'll look out for the Click shortly. I've checked your list of dealers and am nowhere near any of them I think (being in the Surrey/Hampshire area) and I'm not in a position to travel more than a few miles from home. So that might make a difference. Will have to see.

d8veh - you are a mine of information. When I finally make it to a bike shop they had better know their stuff with regard to battery cells and motors!

I'm about 62 kilos/137 lbs last time I checked but I don't have any idea what percentage inclines I'm dealing with other than very small and short/medium hills. I don't expect to put the bike through its paces too much but can the average ebike manage a throttle tug here or there?

At 62 Kilos you need not worry about the ability of any of the bikes you mention. I can guarantee any will take you up the hills you have locally.

I realise that does not help you at all of course!

Take a trip to E-Motion at Swindon for your nearest, most complete stockist, if you can. Next time I visit my sister in Sunningdale I'll offer you a lift to Swindon where Mark there will show you many wonderful bikes from many different brands. If you buy a Juicy, I'll even give you a lift home again!

Is that pressure selling?

 

[Cyclezee]

I forgot to say but I was also looking at the Ezee Dahon Bullet which, having just checked, has a 20 amp motor. That seems quite good for hills potentially - is it legal? Nice looking bike.

Having said that there's no chance of getting to Milton Keynes and I wouldn't buy over the net without trying. Also, doesn't having the battery on the rear rack make for some strange weight distribution? I'm never too keen on that (looks wise either) although would be happy if I could put the battery in a pannier bag/box instead.

Anyway, I digress...

Hi Cricket,

The eZee Dahon Bullet is perfectly legal and a good hill climber.

The rack mounted battery makes no difference to the handling, the standard 10Ah battery only weighs 3.2Kg and the 14Ah which has the same size case is slightly heavier at 3.8Kg, they can be easily camouflaged with a pair of panniers.