Gitane E-Bike 8 with Panasonic

Orraman

Pedelecer
May 4, 2008
226
1
Under Gazelle, A to B describe Electric Cycles from the Electric Cycle Company in Edinburgh, Scotland as "Always helpful and friendly. Lovely people".

I went to try an Easy Glider, a magnificent machine with all the bells and whistles that one could desire.
A gradient that often leaves me exhausted is 400 yards of 1 in 45 and in addition I was concerned about having to lift the bike up four steps from the pavement at home. "This one is lighter, there's a hill near here, we can take them both and swap when you want" and we did, a number of times.

The Gitane E-Bike 8 is a 'nippy' little bike, and at max assistance the acceleration through the automatic gears is surprising and quite exhilarating. I had been sceptical about the Shimano Nexus Auto-D 3 speed hub gears, well I would be wouldn't I? I still 'double declutch' and 'heel and toe' in the car (Google).
Impressed as I was, I explained that as an 'insurance' against an impulse buy I had left my mobility scooter in the Zaffira to be told that with the front wheel off it would go in, it was the weekend with no bookings and being disabled I would need to test it around my home where I would be using it. A very happy weekend, going where I hadn't been for years enjoying gentle exercise, meeting people but the bike was needed for others and new imports a fortnight away. "But but but someone must have one I wail" stamping my foot and near greetin; so they found one for me and had it delivered. "Always helpful and friendly. Lovely people"

Previously I had believed that a throttle would be necessary to get me home if I were to run out of personal pedal power but a Currie powered bike with a throttle showed that I was not getting the exercise I need. As the Gitane can go into the car I can phone for a taxi home and come and collect it.

Two totally separate systems operate here, the much praised new Panasonic crank motor governed by pedal pressure and the Nexus automatic gearchange governed by pedal speed.

For unassisted use, climb aboard and pedal, the Auto-D computer takes it's power from the front wheel dynamo which also measures the roadspeed for timing the automatic gearchanges which are recognised by changes in pedal resistance. I am told there is also a 'beep' ? At 22kg the Gitane is somewhat heavy for me to pedal but even the lowest level of assistance from the Panasonic gives an edge over a normal bike. I am comfortable at medium assist on level a road and on the highest level I can tackle short hills of 1 in 6.

Changing down on hills was a bit strange to begin with, holding a steady pedalling pressure the cadence drops and when one would normally change down easing up on the pressure and the change is made. If one keeps the pressure on for longer than wanted there is a restrained chucking sound that reminds one to ease up, all quite civilised. There is an eight position selector for the cadence at which changes are made and all are a little higher than I would wish but are still viable and the gradual improvement that is hoped for with this pleasant exercise could change this.

Dave
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,884
30,421
Thanks for the report Dave, the number and variety of Panasonic powered bikes is getting bewildering. Only today Poppy mentioned that BH of Spain are launching a couple of them, little wonder Panasonic have found difficulty in keeping up with supplies.

Shimano had intended a multi gear Auto D version, but I don't know if it ever happened, since that would have been good on these bikes for those in the hilliest areas.

The rather high change gear points are probably to suit the Panasonic unit, since that restricts it's maximum power to cadences below 40 per minute. More on that here.
.
 

Orraman

Pedelecer
May 4, 2008
226
1
Thank you flecc for that informative link.

The unassisted automatic change gear points were checked out as first class by a cycling friend and I am more at home with them now.

Considering the recent upsurge in sales of electric bikes do you think that the increasing numbers of new bikes using the Panasonic motor is likely to cause other manufacturers to invest in crank motor development, particularly one able to be customised for Europe?

Thanks to Renaud (6th July 2008,14:10) we know that small software changes for or by manufacturers are being made to the Panasonic motor and as Gitane is a large manufacturer I wonder if the E-Bike 8 has been tweaked, it certainly is quick off the mark.

For my intended use around town I was convinced that the E-Bike 3 (Ah) at £1049 and 21kg would have been adequate but was directed by higher authority to the E-Bike 8 (Ah) for her peace of mind. The mains power to recharge after my latest trips in town were only 20Wh and 30Wh with hills.

Dave
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,884
30,421
Considering the recent upsurge in sales of electric bikes do you think that the increasing numbers of new bikes using the Panasonic motor is likely to cause other manufacturers to invest in crank motor development, particularly one able to be customised for Europe?

Thanks to Renaud (6th July 2008,14:10) we know that small software changes for or by manufacturers are being made to the Panasonic motor and as Gitane is a large manufacturer I wonder if the E-Bike 8 has been tweaked, it certainly is quick off the mark.

Dave
I'd love to think others would follow suit Dave, but I very much doubt it. The market is still small by most manufacturing standards and the investment required to design and make an adequate competing unit high. Heinzmann in Germany are still sticking with their original heavy brush motor hubs and showing no interest in bringing themselves up to date, and I think the Chinese attitude to cycling leaves them complacently happy with hub motors.

BikeTech have made these changes to the Panasonic for their high speed version for years, but the E-Bike 8 probably has the standard power settings since these units are all very quick off the market anyway, maximum power and torque available at standstill. Many new users find that an embarrassment as they accidentally press a bit too hard on a pedal when waiting at the lights. :D Even my Lafree Twist with the old unit was capable of small wheelies off the mark

We've been critical of the conduct of the ExtraEnergy tests in the past, and though I respect the work that Renaud did to produce his report, I think the EE tests are a suspect base to work from and I don't automatically accept the conclusions therefore.
.
 
Last edited:

JamesC

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 1, 2007
435
5
Peterborough, UK
Seen in Provence

A very happy weekend, going where I hadn't been for years enjoying gentle exercise, meeting people but the bike was needed for others and new imports a fortnight away. "But but but someone must have one I wail" stamping my foot and near greetin; so they found one for me and had it delivered. "Always helpful and friendly. Lovely people"

Dave
For readers in France, one week ago there was one in stock at the cycle shop in the centre of Malaucene in Provence.

This bike shop is at the foot of the famous Mont Ventoux, Tour de France stage, and the Gitane Panasonic bike was surrounded by very skinny fast road bikes.

Good to see a balanced view between those that can do Mont Ventoux unassisted, and those that benefit from a bit of help to reach the 1800 metre summit.

James
 

Erik

Pedelecer
Feb 20, 2008
198
3
I saw this type Gitane for rent in Arcachon*, France, but was put off by the automatic gears and the attached trailer.

We ended up renting 21-gear bikes, which I estimate to cost £120 new, and I really missed my Agattu.





* Google Maps
 

Orraman

Pedelecer
May 4, 2008
226
1
flecc,
At my point on the learning curve I am grateful for your assessment of the EE test methods, nothing like knowledge gained over time.
And I am also happy to concede that the Panasonic is more likely to be standard.
However we all know it's not just the equipment, it's the way that you use it.
So it must be these auto gears that add the interest. Under full power, up-changes are positive and the motor responds instantly accelerating an old man across a busy road to join the traffic stream with some measure of élan.

JamesC,
I will concede that those lads may well arrive at the top of Mont Ventoux before me but could they compete with my compact, high density frame plus gravity down the other side?

Erik,
Here am I cogitating on the ways to attach my trailer to the Gitain which has the same motor as your Agattu but is 3kg lighter. I fear you may have missed out without the trailer, the cooler with the wine, the lunch basket and the blankets.

Dave
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,884
30,421
Agreed Dave, the Auto D changing is excellent, and A to B have also been impressed by it. I think it's a pity Shimano haven't extended the design into hubs with more gears, since that could be very popular.

There's another advantage too. In these derailleur days, there's an increasing number of users making a mess of gearchanging on hub gears and suffer failures in consequence, so for them I'd rather have the changes made by a dedicated automatic system.
.
 

Orraman

Pedelecer
May 4, 2008
226
1
flecc,
I am not surprised by your later remarks, the friend that I mentioned earlier is the local cycle dealer and his comments were more forceful than yours. He maintains that many people do not really understand the usage of gears and so do not derive the true benefits from them and he too would like to see more automatics in use. BUT he a canny businessman and will advise but not belabour the point.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,884
30,421
flecc,
I am not surprised by your later remarks, the friend that I mentioned earlier is the local cycle dealer and his comments were more forceful than yours. He maintains that many people do not really understand the usage of gears and so do not derive the true benefits from them and he too would like to see more automatics in use. BUT he a canny businessman and will advise but not belabour the point.
I also think the same as your cycle dealer about the inability of many to use gears efficiently, derailleurs and hub gears. I've commented on that in here quite few times, but it's a bit like flogging a dead horse as your dealer seems to have found.
.
 

Orraman

Pedelecer
May 4, 2008
226
1
I have been levelling the pedals of the Gitane before lifting it up the steps at home and remembered a comment in a previous thread about its low step-through height. Granted this restricts pedalling through turns to some extent but the low crank height means that at 5' 8" I can have the saddle high enough to allow full stretch to my legs on the pedals or my toes touching the ground. With the cranks 3" higher I would be back at the dreaded fall off bike at the lights syndrome.

For those who have not essayed "Trade Secrets" and entered Scroat's World of Cycling there is a treat in store from David Henshaw of A to B.

Trade Secrets

Dave
 
Last edited:

ElephantsGerald

Pedelecer
Mar 17, 2008
168
0
Herefordshire, HR2
I also think the same as your cycle dealer about the inability of many to use gears efficiently, derailleurs and hub gears. I've commented on that in here quite few times, but it's a bit like flogging a dead horse as your dealer seems to have found.
.
flecc,

Any chance you could post some links to where you made your comments on using gears efficiently?

Thanks.

Regards,

Elephants
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,884
30,421
I haven't a clue where Elephants, no links kept since the remarks were just unhelpful comments (!) like my one above, not constructive advice on how.

It's a complex subject with a variety of derailleur and hub gear variations, but I'm sure there must already exist some learned treatises on this online.

I'll have a look around, but maybe someone knows of one and will post a link meanwhile.
.
 

Orraman

Pedelecer
May 4, 2008
226
1
Elephants,

A simplistic view is for any person in any conditions, if you are running short of breath you are pedalling to fast, if your legs are straining you are pedalling too slowly.

A more reasoned view at

Gear Theory for Bicyclists

Dave

Also at?
Trade Secrets
 
Last edited:

Orraman

Pedelecer
May 4, 2008
226
1
There have been a number of comments on the forum praising the use of a standard bike as a basis for electric assist and the Gitane is such a machine.

The hole in the chainguard is sized to allow it to be easily taken off over the pedal for maintenance and the threaded bottom bracket of the original bicycle can be seen.
In the technical thread flecc has mentioned the disposable nature of the Panasonic motor and in the worst case after the guarantee expires an axel will convert it to a quality lightweight bicycle.

Over several days casual cycling around town I had lowered the handlebar power indicator to a single light that was flashing. The Panasonic charger is more a docking station, rated at 1.8A at 29.3V and the lowest light on the battery was flashing at the start of the charge which showed as 0.43A input on my mains monitor. 5 lights were lit shortly before 4 hours, input still at 0.43A, lights out and charge ended at precisely 5 hours with a mains power input of 270Wh.

I now have my 'widthways safety' trailer fitted and have climbed all the local hills in a leisurely fashion but without any difficulty ~ ~12%.
Initially I had felt that three hub gears would be too few for my needs and indeed the Electriccyclecompany had sourced a ready made 7 speed hub geared wheel for me at a very good price but experience has shown that the lowest gear is completely adequate and top is fine for around town. I have been surprised at the long gradients I can manage in second gear, being much overweight at 14 stone and only 5' 8" with trailer, toolkit, waterproofs, folding seat and a short emergency mattress for when I have overcooked it and waiting for renewed energy, paramedics or God. In that order!!!
I am now on friendly waving terms with the paramedics!

Dave