Got my Powabyke X6!!

[poppy]

Probably nearer 100,000 e-bikers in the UK Poppy, believe it or not.

The market was roughly 20,000 a year for some years and is widely believed to have grown from that. Even if the bikes only last five years there will be at least 100,000 e-bikes here.

Have a look at the link below. You've probably never heard of this company or seen their bikes, but over several years they alone were bringing in and selling over 7000 e-bikes a year from just five shops.

Thompson Electric Bikes

That's still a drop in the ocean though, UK normal bike sales are 2 million a year so e-bikes are only 1%.

The forum currently has 1733 members of whom 1425 are considered active.
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Surprised by your data. I don´t think we reach 10000 here in Spain, never mind our proverbial beautiful weather.
I´ve looked up your link, and it has given me pause. If I´ve been complaining about my Tucano, and wishing for a more powerful Panasonic, I can´t imagine how plaintive I would be with one of those. How good can they be at -at least- half the price of the bikes we are discussing in this forum. Some of them are cheaper than a reasonable good push bike!

 

[maca44]

Looking at the last few post it is clear that Powabyke's have many happy customers so it's no surprise that the company is defended so well but remember it is a company who wants to make money so the more feedback they or any other company gets, good or bad, is a good thing for us, the customer.

I do not like the bike pictured, I don't like the look of it I don't think the components would last long & that is my opinion & valid view & that is why I am building my own e bike so I can custom build to suit me. The only bike I see coming close to having an acceptable level of good components is the one that is made in Winchester & is built around a Trek bike but again it's over a £1000.

It is nice to see that Powabykes has such great support from the makers but I am sure the makers will agree that any negative comments made about their bikes can only be constructive & will help any e bike company to move forward in an industry that is IMO not providing a quality alternative mode of transport at this time.

 

[flecc]

Surprised by your data. I don´t think we reach 10000 here in Spain, never mind our proverbial beautiful weather.
I´ve looked up your link, and it has given me pause. If I´ve been complaining about my Tucano, and wishing for a more powerful Panasonic, I can´t imagine how plaintive I would be with one of those. How good can they be at -at least- half the price of the bikes we are discussing in this forum. Some of them are cheaper than a reasonable good push bike!

Yes, they are what we refer to as "cheap and cheerful", but they're matched to the type of user who buys them. Those shopper style bikes are low geared, top motor speed about 13 mph (21 kph) and the rider gearing is so low it's only practical to pedal to about 8 mph. Therefore they do what's wanted, allow virtually all trips without pedalling and with reasonable hill climbing. As the boss of Thompsons says, "Our customers won't pedal".

This is where the bulk of the e-bike market is, and it's where the bulk of further potential is too. Not quality e-bikes for cyclists and enthusiasts but cheap utility transport for social and domestic purposes, shopping, visiting friends, going to the library etc.

At these sort of prices many they've sold have been impulse purchases from those five shops, and it's only recently that they've started selling on the internet. Selling through shops whose main business isn't bikes is the way to go, and it's the way that the Tesco supermarket has taken with their cheap Meercat Metro e-bike. It's no use trying to popularise these e-bikes through cycle shops when the bulk of the public don't go near them, they have to be sold where they do go shopping at prices that enable people to make a snap decision.

That's how Thompsons have shifted so many thousands.
.

 

[Mattyduk]

It has all low end components, and look at the handle bar assembly photo, the levers on the speed shifter would hit the throttle so they move the shifter about 2 cm away from it. One would need very long thumb and fingers to reach it. Horrible looking bike I must say. Hope the price justify it.

W W Ching

whilst I haven't been over complimentary about the x6, mainly because I was looking forward to it so much, but feel let down by the necessary battery change, I think it's a bit rich from Ezee bike provider to start on about the looks. The only reasonably decent looking bike they do (which looks like a normal bike ) is the torq and even that, with it's large battery is looking very outdated.

 

[Mike63]

...I cannot understand all the criticism of the battery on the X-bike :
Just what is wrong with it ?
Like i've said...I have a bag that fixes to my handlebars into which the battery fits and I take it away when I lock up my bike :

However for those who are not happy, would it be feasible to unclip the battery lead, insert the lead through a hole in the rear of a rack bag and plug into the battery carried in the rack bag:

...a decent bag costing £20 could easily carry 2 batteries and if it were made removeable, just unplug and go.

.....Mike

 

[Rad]

I think a lot of people are disappointed that the x-bikes don't have the same style battery as the Cytronex, Mike. I know it was me that coined the term 'rocket launcher' and Frank and the Powabyke boys would probably like to see me swinging from a gibbet for that, but, like you, I'm really not that bothered by it. I don't care if people know I'm riding an electic bike. The reason I'm going for an x-bike is because it looks like a normal bike and I can (just about) afford it. Some of the e-bike designs I've seen amaze me in their wackiness. I don't want wacky, I want practical.

 

[Barnowl]

...I cannot understand all the criticism of the battery on the X-bike :
Just what is wrong with it ?
.....Mike

I think the problem is that if you're going to have a battery pretending to be a water bottle it should look like a water bottle or at least a thermos flask. Otherwise what's the point.

Actually bottle batteries have their merits. The centre of gravity is a bit lower and when cycling the battery is concealed by the cyclists legs (thus adding to the illusion that you're not "cheating" and riding a normal bike ). Also good for those of us that really don't like adding racks and panniers.

 

[WaiWonChing]

Chief eZee Operator

the Ezee kit is also being sold in the UK for a ridiculously overinflated price for a kit compared to other kits on the market.

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OK, does every bike on the market has the same performance and quality and the same price.

Check if you are getting the same stuiff ?
1) Brushless planetary gear motor with 36 N-m at 135 rpm max. at 20 amps.
This goes with the capability of the controller.
And all the precision components, seals, and etc that is in there ?
And weighs 3.5 kgs ?
2) 37V 10Ah Lithium battery with micro-processor for continuous balancing
of cells, and UL grade material for casing.
3) Very high quality pannier bag for battery holding, it took us a lot of efforts
and corrections to iron out the buys even for a bag.
4) High quality charger or cheap charger ?
5) Compatibility for disc brakes ?
6) Stainless steel spokes, Weinman rigida rims, Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres?7) Tektro lever with electrical cutoff with hall sensor ?

You are NOT getting the same thing for a cheap kit, PLEASE.

Thank you.

W W Ching

 

[WaiWonChing]

Chief eZee Operator

I think it's a bit rich from Ezee bike provider to start on about the looks. The only reasonably decent looking bike they do (which looks like a normal bike ) is the torq and even that, with it's large battery is looking very outdated.

I have noted a very specific fault, that is the shifter does not fit with the throttle on the same side of the handle bar assembly, they moved it 2 sc\\cm away that makes the shifting particlularly awkward to reach.

We have an order for 2000 units of Sprints for TCS in Switzerland
( The AA counterpart ) for 2009, that will be distributed throughout Switzerland after a very successful trial run in Geneve this year. You think our eZee Sprint don't like a normal bike and the battery is large and outdated, you are probably not aware that we have a 37V10Ah Li+polymer pack there vs 26 V in other bikes with the small battery you have seen.

And yes, we are already working on reducing the size of the box which was originally designed for NiMH battery.

All the Best

W W Ching

 

[WaiWonChing]

Chief eZee Operator

It's not the first time Mr Ching has overstepped the mark in my view. Totally against the spirit of the forum

musicbooks

I think the forum would allow one to express his opinion that is back up with facts, why have I overstepped ?

Beside the akward position of the shifter, there is this akward rocket launcher for the battery, there is no chain guard, and the front hub motor axle length is oversize neccesitate a oversize ( length between the drop out is not 100 mm standard) front fork that is not standard. I could go on, if you need more facts why I think it looks terrible. I design and make electric bikes which is sold in South Africa to NZ to Alaska and to Finland beside the more sophisticated places like London and New York, so I know what I am talking about, Thank You.

W W Ching

 

[eddieo]

Not sure if its a purely a cultural clash but your percieved arrogance is doing yourself and your product no favors on here....... As a manufacturer you need to be more professional and think long and hard before posting

I for one have been put of your kit by these outburst.......but I doubt that you care.

 

[Rad]

I think the forum would allow one to express his opinion that is back up with facts, why have I overstepped ?

Beside the akward position of the shifter, there is this akward rocket launcher for the battery, there is no chain guard, and the front hub motor axle length is oversize neccesitate a oversize ( length between the drop out is not 100 mm standard) front fork that is not standard. I could go on, if you need more facts why I think it looks terrible. I design and make electric bikes which is sold in South Africa to NZ to Alaska and to Finland beside the more sophisticated places like London and New York, so I know what I am talking about, Thank You.

W W Ching

You are missing the point, as I originally stated it is poor form for a manufacturer to come on to an 'owners' and 'enthusiasts' forum and disrespect another manufacturers product. You are damaging your own company's credibility by doing so.

You can pontificate about the superiority of your product until the cows come home. It is a nice product. But, following your outbursts I think that had I the £1400.00 available I'd be spending it on someone elses product and certainly not yours.

 

[Mattyduk]

You think our eZee Sprint don't like a normal bike and the battery is large and outdated

No. The ezee sprint doesn't look like a normal mans adult mountain/tourer bike used in the UK. It's horrible to look at compared to the x6. It's just my personal opinion but I wouldn't be seen dead riding it. I was referring to the Torq's battery now looking outdated. I'm sure you've got some newer models on the way which will compete with the x6, wisper and Kalkhoff models.

As for the rocket launcher on the x6, the primary design innovation and what was shouted about, was the water bottle battery, so it's very disappointing from my point of view that after 4 months of PR, it was realised that this design wouldn't work with the components they had. I don't want to start taking my bike to bits to hide areas which weren't in the original design.

 

[flecc]

I think it's a bit rich from Ezee bike provider to start on about the looks. The only reasonably decent looking bike they do (which looks like a normal bike ) is the torq and even that, with it's large battery is looking very outdated.

I don't agree with this at all. Fashion has been the curse of the cycle industry over the last couple of decades, taking precedence over efficiency and commonsense.

That's now infecting e-bikes too, the silly "bottle battery" trend being one part of that, other gimmicks being batteries dangling from seatpost clips, hanging from carrier sides preventing decent pannier attachment and even on top of handlebars. These are gimmicks which won't stand the test of time and we'll see batteries with longer ranges returning to the more sensible integrated positions.

E-bikes are not normal bicycles and I don't understand those who want to pretend that they aren't riding one. I ride mine with pride, not shame.
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[maca44]

I don't agree with this at all. Fashion has been the curse of the cycle industry over the last couple of decades, taking precedence over efficiency and commonsense.

That's now infecting e-bikes too, the silly "bottle battery" trend being one part of that, other gimmicks being batteries dangling from seatpost clips, hanging from carrier sides preventing decent pannier attachment and even on top of handlebars. These are gimmicks which won't stand the test of time and we'll see batteries with longer ranges returning to the more sensible integrated positions.

E-bikes are not normal bicycles and I don't understand those who want to pretend that they aren't riding one. I ride mine with pride, not shame.
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Thankfully fashion & looks play a big part in what makes us by things & this also applies to bikes electric or not so something as silly as the look of that ugly battery & looks of this bike would put many people off & this is one reason why the development/sales of ebikes is IMO behind.

Superficial or not the looks of a bike is very important & this bike along with many others I have seen look like bikes that were made 30 years ago & taking the time to simply add a nice looking battery that resenbled a water bottle would have made this partiular bike atleast a tad more atractive just take a look at that bike that is made in Winchester & is based on a Trek, it looks like a modern bike & they have made the battery (water bottle ) blend in with the looks very well indeed.

 

[flecc]

Superficial or not the looks of a bike is very important & this bike along with many others I have seen look like bikes that were made 30 years ago

If you are referring to the eZee Torq that mattyduk mentioned and I quoted, this shows how far adrift you are in your comments.

The Cytronex Trek you mention is exactly what bikes looked like thirty years ago before the mountain bike fashion took hold.

It's bikes like the Torq and Wisper 905 that are the newer designs, and they are still widely misunderstood. The sloping crossbar is the major difference in the frame shape, and it's there to accommodate the lower rear A frame which facilitates the battery entry, the alternative being a side entry of like that of the Panasonic motored bikes.

You're also missing the point of what I posted about efficiency. Small batteries are less efficient than larger ones, running as they do nearer to their limits of operation, and the weight savings are often not as great as might be supposed. Most e-bikers use their motor nearly all the time, and run in the way they normally use them bikes like the Cytronex can run out to empty in little over ten miles.

Bikes like the Cytronex are fine for fit cyclists who just want a bit of help on hills, but for the great majority of of e-bikers, the eZee Torq 2, the Wisper 905se and the Kalkhoffs make far more sense, outperforming the Cytronex as e-bikes by large margins in speed, hill climbing or range, and sometimes in all three.
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[frank9755]

Many of the bikes made thirty years ago were real beauties! Light and responsive machines with slim but strong Reynolds steel tubing. Brakes were ok but gears weren't as good - no indexed shifting. Far nicer to look at than a lot of the heavy lumps of today!

As it happens, a few weeks ago my wife and I treated ourselves to a couple of 25-30 year-old drop-handlebar bikes. She got a Raleigh with a mixte frame and I got a Dawes Super Galaxy: combined cost was £50! They've both been looked after and are great to ride and works of art to look at - I can't wait for bike fashion to turn back to the seventies and eighties!

Like it or not, don't call the Ezee an old-fashioned design - those thick aluminium tubes identify it as a thoroughly 21st century bike!

Frank

Crossed with Flecc's post!

 

[flecc]

I can't wait for bike fashion to turn back to the seventies and eighties!

Me too where normal bikes are concerned, subject to them having modern gears.

Although e-bikes are different products, they too would benefit from being steel framed in many cases.
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[maca44]

If you are referring to the eZee Torq that mattyduk mentioned and I quoted, this shows how far adrift you are in your comments.

The Cytronex Trek you mention is exactly what bikes looked like thirty years ago before the mountain bike fashion took hold.

It's bikes like the Torq and Wisper 905 that are the newer designs, and they are still widely misunderstood. The sloping crossbar is the major difference in the frame shape, and it's there to accommodate the lower rear A frame which facilitates the battery entry, the alternative being a side entry of like that of the Panasonic motored bikes.

You're also missing the point of what I posted about efficiency. Small batteries are less efficient than larger ones, running as they do nearer to their limits of operation, and the weight savings are often not as great as might be supposed. Most e-bikers use their motor nearly all the time, and run in the way they normally use them bikes like the Cytronex can run out to empty in little over ten miles.

Bikes like the Cytronex are fine for fit cyclists who just want a bit of help on hills, but for the great majority of of e-bikers, the eZee Torq 2, the Wisper 905se and the Kalkhoffs make far more sense, outperforming the Cytronex as e-bikes by large margins in speed, hill climbing or range, and sometimes in all three.
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I am referring to the Powabyke X6 with regards the outdated looks along with many others I have seen & I don't think I have missed any point at all.

Thank god standard bikes have moved on from the 70's/80's but if that's your thing then I guess it takes all sorts & I hope you get good use out of them but if that's how electric bike are going to be produced then I don't hold much hope in making the electric bike as popular as it they should be in terms of an green alternative form of transport not if manufactures are staying in the dark ages with design.

 

[Mattyduk]

I don't agree with this at all. Fashion has been the curse of the cycle industry over the last couple of decades, taking precedence over efficiency and commonsense.

E-bikes are not normal bicycles and I don't understand those who want to pretend that they aren't riding one. I ride mine with pride, not shame.
.

I think we will have to agree to disagree.

I don't want to ride something that draws attention to myself as I cycle to work each day, hence my despair at the Ezee sprint which looks "unusual" in my opinion. Maybe I was doing it a disservice here as looking on their site I was looking at the step thru version, but even so

I'm not worried about the battery issue (as I previously had a Synergie Extreme which had a big lead acid battery, but at least it still looked light a mountain bike) or even people knowing I'm using an e-bike. The Cyrtronex, torq, Kalkhoff and Wisper are fine to my tastes, and it is very subjective. I'm even looking at a Salisbury Powabyke to get me through the winter. But all of these bikes, look normal bikes to me, with a battery, which is what I want, rather than the more outlandish designs of the ezee family (exluding torq)

My concern with the x6 was that it was original shown with the bottle battery and then when it came to retail wasn't, for now known reasons.

Yes the bike's got be to be efficient and do the job, but I want something that looks the part as well.