Grace Easy, Grace MX2 urban and Electrolyte Vorradler....

[Sanders]

Hello from the Swiss-French border.

I recently joined this pedelec community due to the reason that is shared with many here: overweight and want to add more exercise to my life. Since there are many hills in the daily commute I know that an unassisted bike would end up gathering dust: so I wanted an assist to keep me going. Hopefully with increasing fitness I will reduce the assistance level.

Anyway, a friend was also interested in this project, thus we were in the market for two pedelecs: so what to choose?

Our journey has passed through the bicycles in the title above and has taken some months. I will break this story into individual posts to cover these different bicycles.

First we visited various dealers in the area: and I saw an example of this Gates Carbon BeltDrive rather than the standard metallic chain. I really liked this technology and wanted this on my pedelec. I also liked the ability to recharge the battery while going down hills... so this means a hub motor. My friend was less hung-up on the recharging but wanted a good looking bicycle.

So a GRACE EASY with the Gates belt drive matched my desires, and a GRACE MX2 URBAN was the choice of my friend. Since I would be going 15 km each way to work and had some hills and I am too heavy: I also choose the high speed version for the GRACE EASY. so the final choice was:

GRACE EASY S-Pedelec Gates -Medium size - in the blue-grey colour
GRACE MX2 URBAN Pedelec Medium size in the bronze colour with suspension forks added (this model had the Gates Carbon BeltDrive with the Nuvinci gears)

So this is the beginning of the story.... more in the next post

 

[Sanders]

OK: so once the models had been selected: we wanted to find a dealer of this particular make: GRACE so we could try them and eventually buy them: preferably in France rather than Switzerland since I thought it would be easier for the paperwork for the S-pedelec.

The nearest dealer was located some 35 km away: so we visited. They had a White GRACE EASY pedelec (25 km/h version) that I tried and liked a lot... so we asked him to see how long it would take hime to get the EASY S-Pedelec and the MX2 URBAN.

However during the following days I found that the GRACE EASY was being offered by Media Markt (a large electronics/electrical appliance chain) in Germany at ~ half the list price. After some more searching I found a bicycle shop near Munich who also offered the GRACE EASY at this price. Since Munich is the home of GRACE: I thought - let us go with these guys... maybe they will be able to get the MX2 quickly.

It was already becoming clear that the MX2 URBAN was a problem: that particular combination was just not available : in general the pedelec version was difficult to find : S-Pedelec was more available but in large size. However we wanted the MX2 in pedelec version just to avoid the paperwork and regulation of the S-pedelec. We were assured by many dealers that the MX2 would be manufactured in 2 weeks: and that exchanging the front forks would be straightforward... so we ordered the EASY S-pedelec for immediate delivery and the MX2 would follow some weeks later.

About a week later the GRACE EASY arrived: it had been packed in a large box labelled GRACE. Unfortunately these transport companies are not so gentle and clearly the box had been dropped on its corner and the bicycle had moved inside. The back mudguard had been damaged : I notified the dealer in Germany : they would order and send a replacement mudguard.

This bicycle was bigger than I expected: with the crossbar higher than I recalled from the test ride. The bicycle was clearly marked M (medium) on all paperwork and on the bicycle itself. Maybe the suspension front fork lifts the front of the bicycle... but anyway it was a marvel. I really enjoyed riding it and the 15 km morning commute could be done in ~ 35 minutes (a little longer on the return since it was more uphill). So I was a confirmed e-biker after many many years without riding a bike.

Since it was a S-Pedelec: I needed to register it with the French authorities, get a number plate and take out insurance. The first two steps were easy, but finding insurance was difficult since many insurance companies were unfamiliar with it. I found one eventually .. and also took additional insurance against theft : all in all, a bit expensive, but done.

But there was a niggling problem with it: some mornings the power would surge on and then cut off for a second and then on again. I tried to find why it did this, but the problem was intermittent and would settle down after about a km. Sometimes going up a steep hill it would take a full turn of the pedals for power to kick in. Strange faults: but not so critical : so I just enjoyed it.

My worry was that it only had 3 hub gears and this would not be sufficient: however this worry was unfounded: 3 was quite sufficient for this S-pedelec (I will revisit this point later in the story).

The range with a full battery I estimated to be ~ 45 km (I never ran the battery to be empty). This was a bit shorter than I wanted but hopefully the range would extend with my fitness level.

Meanwhile the delivery of the MX2 was delayed : it was being made in somewhere in eastern germany and the main office of GRACE did not seem to know what was happening. Weeks turned into a month with still no firm news.

Then: disaster: the Grace EASY gave up. It would no longer assist at all. I found how the itrottle mode could be enabled ( a secret sequence of buttons on the control unit). This would power the bicycle up to speeds of 19 km/h : so the motor was just fine. It seems that the sensor detecting whether I was pushing on the pedals was deflective. I contacted the GRACE main office and asked what to do: whether there was anything I could do, or if I could take it to a local dealer (in Geneva, Switzerland) for diagnosis. The answer was NO. I had to return it to the dealer in Munich, some 600 km away. I did not find the GRACE main office helpful or sympathetic.

So: I contacted the dealer and said, since the MX2 was due to be available the following week : I would drive there with the GRACE EASY : they could repair it, and then I would drive back with both bikes. They thought it could be the sensor in the bottom bracket: so they would order a new bottom bracket: but if it was not that, it would have to go back to GRACE.

However after waiting a week the delivery of the MX2 was again delayed (this was a problem with GRACE : not with the dealer itself) so I packed the GRACE EASY into its box: making sure it could not move even if the box was turned upside down, and sent it off to Germany.

This story seems to be getting too long: I will pause here and continue again later...

 

[Croxden]

This is bringing back memories of my exasperation, I hope it gets sorted for you.

 

[Sanders]

So the saga continues : now about 2 months after our initial order of two GRACE ebikes: and one is broken and the other still to be made: but then a miracle happens: GRACE make the MX2 and ship it to the dealer where he exchanges the front fork for one with suspension.

However the GRACE EASY has problems: the dealer had exchanged the bottom bracket: this did not solve the problem: he also reported strange error messages from the controller: so it has to go back to GRACE. He says that it will take them 2 weeks to fix it: but I do not believe anything that GRACE says any more.

So I said I will come and pick up the MX2 and either he can declare the GRACE EASY dead: and replace it ... or he can lend me another ebike until it gets fixed, but I wanted a solution where we could have two ebikes. I should also state that the dealer always acted in an absolute proper manner: he offered a full refund and the ability to cancel the order etc.

Anyway after a bit of thought he agreed to somehow solve my problem: so off I went to Germany ... and 600 km later I arrived at his shop.

The GRACE MX2 was there looking very smart. He offered to lend me a white GRACE EASY (large size).... but I saw this Electrolyte Vorradler in his shop and rather liked the look of that: It was a pedelec (not S pedelec) but this makes it easier with the regulations and authorities. Since it was a demo model: he offered it at a good price: so I swapped it for my now ex-GRACE EASY (which had been sent off to GRACE). The Vorradler had a hub motor made by Go SwissDrive instead of teh BionX of the GRACE EASY. It had a derailer gear system : rather than the hub gears with gates carbon beltdrive ... but it was a good looking bike: the battery is almost twice that of the GRACE EASY so it should give me the range that I wanted.

I tried both the MX2 and the Vorradler : I really enjoy the Vorradler but the MX2 I was uncertain about: it did not have the bite of power when starting off: In the end I decided it was just because I was not used to the mid mounted Bosch motor compared to the hub motors of the EASY and the Vorradler. So we put both bicycles on the back of the car and I returned.

DISASTER

When we (my friend and I) tried the Vorradler and the MX2 side by side: there was no comparison. The MX2 is a super well equipped bicycle: Gates Carbon beltdrive, Nuvinci hub gears, latest generation 2 Bosch motor : what could be wrong?

In the end I decided that the MX2 did not have a proper sensor of the torque that you apply to the pedals: Normally as you cycle along: if you hit a hill, you push on the pedals a bit more: the electronics senses this and supplies a bit more power to the motor: and up the hill you go. With the MX2 it did not recognise that you were pushing the pedals harder and did not give a shot of more motor power. In addition the Nuvinci gear system required one to stop pedalling to change the gear: The MX2 did appear to recognise pedalling at high speed: so the technique was to change to a lower gear setting before you hit a hill ; and then pedal like crazy and up you would go. I think that this lack of sensitivity of the Bosch system was due to the Gates beltdrive (and hub gears): the normal derailer system allows a sensor on the chain that could sense the tension and therefore the torque being applied.

So the MX2 and the Vorradler side-by-side: the Vorradler would go up hills with pleasure (just like the GRACE EASY) while with the MX2 it was a real pain in the @##e.

So what to do? I could give the Vorradler to my friend and learn to like the MX2. I really tried: this was not helped by the day of the trial it was pouring with rain. Question: why do manufacturers make bikes without mudguards... especially when the bike is labelled as MX2 URBAN: and then these mudguards are out of stock (even though they were ordered at the same time as the bike)? The MX2 comes with very wide tyres (Big Ben) I thought I did not like these, but they gave me confidence crossing the tram lines in Geneva: but these wide tyres generated so much spray that one gets completely soaked after a very short time: so WHY NO MUDGUARDs??? (The Vorradler came with mudguards)

Anyway : I rode this MX2 for 60 km during the day : and at the end I was completely sure that I did not want to ride another km on it. Dealing witn hills was just too unpleasant.
The good things about the MX2 : wide tyres, the looks, the autonomy.
The not so good: the motor made a noise: not so much, I could live with it: but I prefer the absolute silence of the gearless hub drive.
The bad things: hill climbing and the Nuvinci gear system that requires a complete stop of pedalling to change gears: this coupled to the Bosch motor meant that all forward motion is cut during all gear shifts. Certainly this Nuvinci gear system would get better with time since it was very stiff (with newness I guess).

Ok What to do? We had waited so long for this MX2 equipped with all the gadgets we wanted : and it was a disaster: what to do?

Sorry for such a long story ... I will continue with the final part(s) later....

 

[Sanders]

Well it is a no brainer: in my opinion this GRACE MX2 URBAN is mis-designed: maybe this design fault does not show up so much in the S-Pedelec version : maybe in the S-Pedelec version there is always more power being supplied to the motor? Strangely only the S-Pedelec version is available in Switzerland at this moment of writing.
I feel guilty to go back to the dealer and tell him that this fancy bicycle that I had been pushing to get for so long a time ... and one where he had exchanged the front fork etc etc was in fact a dud.... but what other option did I have. So I told him that I did not want the MX2 URBAN: but would exchange it for a second Voraadler: and he very obliging did this: refunding the amount I paid for the MX2 in full. The Electrolyte showroom is close to Munich : he went the next day and picked up a new Vorradler: I drove to Germany again the following day and swapped the MX2 for a Vorradler pedelec

So after all this am I happy? The answer is YES. In my opinion the Vorradler is a very good looking bike: it is very comfortable to ride.
However it does have some negative points:
Point 1: at 25 km/h where the electric assist is switched off there is a sudden increase in resistance as if the regeneration has been switched on: this is not regeneration but just the impedance of the motor turning all these magnets around close to these windings. I did not notice this with the GRACE EASY since that was the 45 km/h S-pedelec (and I never went above 45 km/h).
Point 2: the control display of the Go SwissDrive is substandard: for example there is no clock, no length of journey etc. More importantly switching between assistance levels is done with small fiddly buttons on the control unit. All this will be fixed on a new control unit that will be released early next year.
Point 3: it has this disc brakes made by Magura (MT4). As soon as it rains these brakes screech like ... horrible. When they dry out they stop this screeching after some hard braking... but as soon as it rains one has this problem. The GRACE EASY has the same brakes and the same problem. The MX2 came with Avid Elixir 5: and these were silent in the rain. I will exchange the Magura to the Avid brakes on one ... if this fixes the problem... then I will do the other one.
Point 4: The GRACE EASY would enter regeneration mode on braking: the Vorradler does not (Electrolyte says that the switches in the brake levers are unreliable: so they opted not to do this).

Another difference with the GRACE EASY is there seems to be less power at high speeds (~ 25 km/h). With the GRACE EASY I could go up long uphills keeping the speed between 25 and 30 km/h in the highest gear: with the Vorradler one is aware of the hills more and makes use of the gears for steeper hills. This is fine since I want a bicycle for exercise and not a motorbike...

On the plus side : the people at Electrolyte are helpful and friendly also the people at Go SwissDrive.

I would recommend strongly the bicycle dealer I went through: very pleasant and honest people but I am not sure if I am allowed to state their name in this forum.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You don't need to change the brakes. Just change the pads, which will only cost a few Euros. I guess you've got organic pads. Change to sintered.