Front fork manual, I think I've found the correct manual here....
http://www.sram.com/_media/techdocs/95-4015-022-000 print.pdf
http://www.sram.com/_media/techdocs/95-4015-022-000 print.pdf
Haibike Xduro FS - First Impressions
- Thread starter eTim
- Start date
Thanks Tim for the shock info, i have now increased mine to 190PSi and re weighed myself at 90lbs so ready to ride (clothed) i must be closer to 115lbs.It seems to be useing 90% of its travel but i have chickened out of jumping over the flower bed wall for now,(its only about 20" high)so i still need to properly test it, its a easy jump on my dirt bike,just looks a little daunting for the forks frame on a pedelec,as not ever owning a mountain bike before i dont want to wreck it just yet,do you think its capable of that sort of drop or is it a must land on the rear,not the forks?
My handle bar came loose as well as i was belting down the road, so i sort of tipped forward suddenly,but remembered James said you can ride it with no hands, paper boy style, so i did,for a short way,i have noticed it has some writing on the bar top which reads 40-50lb,i suppose thats a torque setting and if so can you buy allen keys which have a torque guage or how do you know how tight to do them up?
There is a film of oil around the front fork tubes and rear shock which dirt etc has now stuck to,would you think this just a normal running/bedding in issue?
I still cant feel a lot of difference when i adjust the 2 knobs on the rear shock,the gold one which has "gate" stamped on it is pointing strait up,same with the blue one behind it,should they be adjusted as a pair?
In the BOSCHE manual, page 28 it states the speed and distance indicators can be displayed in KPH or MPH,depending on country-specific versions, but we have obviously got the KPH version, i wonder if James is able to provide a MPH version for UK owners, and if a new HMI drive will just clip on or is each HMI only useable for the bike it was supplied with?
In case you had not read it Page 30 states a fully charged battery and a efficient riding manner that a opperating range of 145KM is possible!
I have been giving it a right old bashing over the fields and have decided it may be a good idea to get a helmet, regular bike ones seem a little flimsy,but motorcycle ones,even the trial riders type a bit over the top,any sugestions of a good type/make or even a good internet store?
I rode down my lane at 47kph,it seems plenty fast enough but car drivers seem to think bikes (or me) are a must to over take,(in this village anyway) even in a 30mph limit, but i suppose you owners of pedelects have got used to it, i found it worrying,they probably found me annoying!
My handle bar came loose as well as i was belting down the road, so i sort of tipped forward suddenly,but remembered James said you can ride it with no hands, paper boy style, so i did,for a short way,i have noticed it has some writing on the bar top which reads 40-50lb,i suppose thats a torque setting and if so can you buy allen keys which have a torque guage or how do you know how tight to do them up?
There is a film of oil around the front fork tubes and rear shock which dirt etc has now stuck to,would you think this just a normal running/bedding in issue?
I still cant feel a lot of difference when i adjust the 2 knobs on the rear shock,the gold one which has "gate" stamped on it is pointing strait up,same with the blue one behind it,should they be adjusted as a pair?
In the BOSCHE manual, page 28 it states the speed and distance indicators can be displayed in KPH or MPH,depending on country-specific versions, but we have obviously got the KPH version, i wonder if James is able to provide a MPH version for UK owners, and if a new HMI drive will just clip on or is each HMI only useable for the bike it was supplied with?
In case you had not read it Page 30 states a fully charged battery and a efficient riding manner that a opperating range of 145KM is possible!
I have been giving it a right old bashing over the fields and have decided it may be a good idea to get a helmet, regular bike ones seem a little flimsy,but motorcycle ones,even the trial riders type a bit over the top,any sugestions of a good type/make or even a good internet store?
I rode down my lane at 47kph,it seems plenty fast enough but car drivers seem to think bikes (or me) are a must to over take,(in this village anyway) even in a 30mph limit, but i suppose you owners of pedelects have got used to it, i found it worrying,they probably found me annoying!
Hi Bonefishtone,
With all your experience in trailbikes (petrol versions!), you'll probably have the mechanical sensitivity to tighten handlebar clamp to correct torque without torque wrench. But do bare in mind that these Allen screws are small and going into aluminim so don't over do it!
Its worth pointing out that if you have a big prang its better that handlebars, brake levers, gear levers, steering head stock can 'slide' a little rather than breaking on impact with you or mother earth.
If you'd like a good torque wrench I can supply - not a bad thing to have in your box and useful when checking all the other nuts and bolts are nice and secure from time to time.
Rgds,
James
Yes, this is normal. The seals do all they can but as with forklifts, motorcycles, etc the 'ram' will always have a thin film of oil on it for the dust to stick to.
Rgds,
James
Hi Bonefishtone,
Damping is complex subject. Briefly, the spring is there to carry the combined mass of you and machine and accommodate bumps; the dampers (bounce and rebound) are there to dampen the spring's movement. Once you've determined the correct spring rate (air pressure) for the challenge ahead you can the turn your attention to damping...
With both damper adjusters fully open, adjust the 'bounce' rate of the damper using the GOLD adjuster until you can feel it gently "slowing" the compression stroke. Don't over do it; too hard and the damper will be carrying all the load - not the 'spring'.
Once your happy with the spring and bounce rates you can the look at rebound rate (RED adjuster). Again, you are only looking to 'slow' the force of the spring here - don't overdo it or you'll run into "jacking" problems. This happens when the chosen spring rate is not high enough to return the bike to 'normal' ride height before you hit the next bump so it 'jacks' the bike down as you go over successive bumps, ultimately resulting in zero suspension! This is not only uncomfortable but will result in slow lap times!
As a rough guide if you're jumping off a cliff lower the spring rate and use minimal damping, if your riding rough ground turn it all up a bit.
If you get really excited about it (and believe me the subject of suspension dynamics can be addictive), there are ways to data-log the movements over time and perfect the set-up, let me know...
I'll try and make time to better explain this later, but hope this helps in the meantime.
Rgds,
James
Well I think James has answered most of your questions, however....I weigh 90Kg and I've upped my pressure to 260psi, I appear to like running it at higher pressures (or the shock does), and it puts me at 20% sag. As a precaution I would have thought that for your style of riding, you might be better off with higher then 190psi !!
Aiming to land with both wheels at the same time (difficult to master) or rear wheel first (easier) is usually a better landing technique, I'm sure you know landing front wheel first is asking for disaster, have you still got your own teeth?
Here's something you could try....you can do rolling stoppies, right? Well do a normal stoppie until you are happy that you can balance on the front wheel using the brake to control the height, once you have mastered that then move onto stoppies with bouncing on the front wheel. Once you have mastered this last bit, I bet you'd find front wheel landings a breeze !!
This is normal, the oil attracts dust and will be slowly be consumed by dust, requiring cleaning and renewing. If you read the manual or check the online maintenance articles they recommend that after a few hours of usage you should clean the tubes and re-apply a thin coat of [snake] oil to maintain good movement and keep the seals lubricated, last thing you want is poor stitchion. These shocks are air filled which, unlike oil filled motorcycle shocks, will not self lubricate, therefore maintenance is required.
Suspension setup beyond setting sag can be a specialised black art and is dependent on many factors including rider experience. My advice would be to leave these settings at mid-point and if it is OK then don't try and fix it. Whilst these suspension units will probably cost around £250 a piece to replace they are not considered high end, relatively speaking, and therefore offer a limited amount of adjustment for the average trail rider. If you were a pro, then you would pay lots more for a suspension setup to your exact liking and riding conditions that day and would have spent many hours (and ££££) in the saddle working it all out (just like motorbike riders do).
Looking at the non-electric versions of this bike, Haibike supply this bike with 3 component levels, the cheapest of the three, which appears to retail at around £1600 is supplied with a similar spec to the electric versions with Roc Shox suspension, whereas the more expensive versions are fitted with Fox suspension. Fox suspension is generally considered to be superior,however this is not to say that Roc Shox is poorer quality, but given the amount of use the bike will get, I look forward to the day when the suspension is worn out and I can replace it with Fox suspension. The level of componentry also indicates how Haibike have managed to produce a Bosch motored full suspension bike at the price point. A good compromise I would say in the mid-range aimed at 'normal' trail riders . The highest price full-suspension non-electric Haibike is around £2,200 retail which is still cheap in the world of decent quality FS bikes, but that would put the electric version at around £3,500+ if it was ever produced, crazy prices in a crazy ebike world!
I've noticed my forks can be uncomfortable over rapid washboard terrain, so I need to play with my setting a bit more to see what can be done. I also have a Marin to compare with, but that hasn't seen light of day for over a week now.
I believe James is looking into this.
Yes, I noticed this, not sure I'd have the patience to try it, this bikes too much fun to be poodling around at 25kph in an efficient manner!!
There's a wide range of helmets to suit all conditions, budgets etc, best to speak to one or two LBS's and try some on.
Hey, we all know car drivers are idiots, right? Plenty of advice on this forum about road riding, best stick to the trails
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I don't know about other readers but having ploughed through all the postings so far in this thread, I think I've gone right off the xDuro model. The last thing I want if spending something north of 2 grand on a bike is to be spending lots of time making suspension adjustments.
As it happens, I have two identical full-sus mountain bikes and only ever tried once to alter the factory settings on one bike, keeping the other as supplied. After messing around with various settings, I found that the original settings were pretty much optimal for both me and my other half. They have never been adjusted since and continue to provide really good shock absorption and damping.
Simplicity and low maintenance are, for me, far more desirable elements in a bike than the ultimate in suspension characteristics. Perhaps I'm missing something but I'm not altogether sure why electric assistance is desirable or worthwhile in an off-road styled bike. I'm sure someone can explain though.
Indalo
As it happens, I have two identical full-sus mountain bikes and only ever tried once to alter the factory settings on one bike, keeping the other as supplied. After messing around with various settings, I found that the original settings were pretty much optimal for both me and my other half. They have never been adjusted since and continue to provide really good shock absorption and damping.
Simplicity and low maintenance are, for me, far more desirable elements in a bike than the ultimate in suspension characteristics. Perhaps I'm missing something but I'm not altogether sure why electric assistance is desirable or worthwhile in an off-road styled bike. I'm sure someone can explain though.
Indalo
[QUOTE=indalo;107648 Perhaps I'm missing something but I'm not altogether sure why electric assistance is desirable or worthwhile in an off-road styled bike. I'm sure someone can explain though.
I've only did a little mountain biking and it is great fun going over rough terrain downhill but a real slog on the uphill sections - which is where the wish for motor assistance comes in.
I've only did a little mountain biking and it is great fun going over rough terrain downhill but a real slog on the uphill sections - which is where the wish for motor assistance comes in.
Hi Indalo, nothing new here regarding full suss, just trying to explain in a bit more detail which might be confusing for some. Certainly any new FS bike should be adjusted for riders preference and this includes the front and rear shocks, sag being the most important mainly to prevent damage to the suspension (and possibly only setting that should be set correctly).
It really depends on how you use the bikes, do you trail ride, all mountain, singletrack, XC, downhill, X4, jumps, North Shore ? Each one is a seperate, but related, mountain bike discipline and has a language all it's own. The Xduro is all mountain (an all-rounder for us laypeople). If you are only light trail riding you probably don't need rear suspension in the first place.
If you run your bike's hard off-road, they will need more maintenance and adjustment, a simple equation really. You really have to try one of these bikes to appreciate it's characteristics and why an electric motor is such a great idea. I know that this forum is not really orientated towards the slightly more advanced use of mountain bikes, but it is a pedelec. This is the first time a full suss, capable, electric mountain bike with crank drive has become available at a 'normal' price point in the UK, with dealer backup, discussion around it will help to understand it.
If you already use a mountain bike as a mountain bike, ie up and down mountains, then you will appreciate this bike to it's fullest
Although I wouldn't compare it with your Haibike on all features, apart from the rear suspension type the Tonaro Bighit has the makings of one for the less well off who still want some similar enjoyment. It is very capable in the motor department, and with throttle control possibly more capable in some respects:
Tonaro Bighit
.
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Agree with that choice, less than half the price and looks to be capable of tackling most things, 90nm torque means it will fly up the hills. Would be interesting to see how the components hold up with a few months of hard use. Pity they couldn't have made it a bit more of a looker, but I'm sure that doesn't detract from it's functionality.
Just for some sort of comparison I purchased a £600 Dawes Team Full-suspension non-electric in 2003 (very similar looking frame to the Tonaro) and used that for a couple of years off-road before upgrading to the £2,000 Marin Attack Trail Full Suspension non-electric. The difference between them showed the more expensive bike had a better ride quality and was more enjoyable to ride (and was more capable), also the components on the Dawes were knackered after 2 years, whereas, 5 years on, the components on the Marin are still going strong.
Eleven Tenths
In the interests of transparency and a wish to keep all concerned safe and in the loop...
Our demo Haibike FS today started to 'slip' in 10th gear under heavy loads. The 11T sprocket has 'hooked' (?) Its not ware, its deformation of the tooth tip.
To put this in perspective, a gang of gorillas (inc gentle men Toby and Martin in our youtube vid) have been putting the poor demo bike through some really extreme stuff over the last month while filming more 'stunts' and looking for its limits.
I believe this is down to the fact that the chain has been stretched having covered almost 600 miles of tough, and paradoxically, low speed bottom gear grunting up 49 steps etc.
Please keep an eye on it and let me know if you experience similar.
Techys at Haibike have been notified today , I'll keep you posted.
Rgds,
James
In the interests of transparency and a wish to keep all concerned safe and in the loop...
Our demo Haibike FS today started to 'slip' in 10th gear under heavy loads. The 11T sprocket has 'hooked' (?) Its not ware, its deformation of the tooth tip.
To put this in perspective, a gang of gorillas (inc gentle men Toby and Martin in our youtube vid) have been putting the poor demo bike through some really extreme stuff over the last month while filming more 'stunts' and looking for its limits.
I believe this is down to the fact that the chain has been stretched having covered almost 600 miles of tough, and paradoxically, low speed bottom gear grunting up 49 steps etc.
Please keep an eye on it and let me know if you experience similar.
Techys at Haibike have been notified today , I'll keep you posted.
Rgds,
James
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Seems as though the substance doesn't quite measure up to the hype but perhaps I'm being unkind......no, hang on! This is advertised as a proper mountain bike, isn't it?
I really want to like this bike but the price is a deal-killer for me. When it then fails to demonstrate the robustness I would expect from such a machine, I'm put off completely.
Ok, we can say it's only to be expected that there will be a few teething problems with the Mk1 edition but when the sellers market the product as a premium machine with a commensurate price tag, it really ought to do what it says on the tin.
I'd bet that some of the members of this forum could produce a better machine for less money. I think the manufacturer should have got this launch right as it's been no secret for a long time now that it was coming.
Indalo
I really want to like this bike but the price is a deal-killer for me. When it then fails to demonstrate the robustness I would expect from such a machine, I'm put off completely.
Ok, we can say it's only to be expected that there will be a few teething problems with the Mk1 edition but when the sellers market the product as a premium machine with a commensurate price tag, it really ought to do what it says on the tin.
I'd bet that some of the members of this forum could produce a better machine for less money. I think the manufacturer should have got this launch right as it's been no secret for a long time now that it was coming.
Indalo
Indalgo you've made my night, thank you!
Shorting Accell was a mistake, you've just gotta take it on the chin and move on.
But seriously, where are you? maybe we can lend you one of these things for a day or so?
Rgds,
James
Thanks for your kind offer James but in the interest of objectivity and impartiality, perhaps you should direct your offer to flecc or one of the other forum contributors with more experience of different types of electric bikes. It might actually help your cause if you really believe the bike is all that it's cracked up to be.
Regards,
Indalo
Chill Indalo, is there a thread somewhere that I've missed where you have got into an argument about the Bosch system or the Haibike in particular (or James) or is it just the price???
I'm not going to defend the quality of this bike for the sake of it, as an owner I would like to know about problems if there are any, but I'm sure that 600 miles of bouncing up and down those steps, probably on the highest setting with the highest torque is probably at the extreme end of the abuse scale, not the sort of sustained abuse that any owner would subject their bike to.
I went for an off-road trip around Leckworth hill yesterday with some non-electric friends, a 1 in 3 hill up and down, plenty of drops, loose rock, roots, holes and tricky sections to negotiate, all was handled admirably on the lowest setting (I like to put some effort in when out in company), I would have flown round if I'd upped the settings a couple of notches (and my bottle would allow). My mates were impressed and surprisingly I only got a gentle ribbing and certainly no derisory comments. My legs have worked but I feel good enough to go and do it again the day after. The bike is normal, sure time will tell, I've done 60miles nearly all rough off-road so far and nothing has fallen off and then there is a two year warranty.
Indalo, come for a ride and see what it's all about? It's a good challenge to see if anyone on here could build a bike capable of the same abuse......any takers? All you would need is a Heinzmann setup, hub motor and battery in the rucsac (cables everywhere) and a folding Paratrooper
for errr ahem, £2,500
Or a ready built Tonaro Bighit for £1095 and have enough cash left over for a second one if it broke!It's a good challenge to see if anyone on here could build a bike capable of the same abuse......any takers? All you would need is a Heinzmann setup, hub motor and battery in the rucsac (cables everywhere) and a folding Paratrooper
Hi Tim
Three question marks must be significant in some way but I'm not sure how.
I'm not aware of condemning the Bosch system, the bike or the seller but if I have done, no doubt someone will draw it to my attention. As regards the price, any electric bike costing over 2 grand should, in my view, really be considerably better in all departments than the budget bikes costing between a quarter and a third of the Haibike price.
It may well be the case that the Haibike spec is superior across the board to the type of bike I refer but so it should be. Not for a moment would I suggest that the Haibike isn't a robust piece of kit, indeed I rather like its purposeful appearance but, when the manufacturer and/or supplier bill it as a proper mountain bike, I expect it to cope even with steps. If it can't handle a bit of abuse without serious problems, given the hype which accompanied its launch, then it could be argued that the bike is not fit for purpose.
Whether the Haibike is viewed as a success in its niche of the market, only time will tell. I hope it is a success and I look forward to reading reviews about it in due course. Maybe one day I'll get around to visiting the dealer and take one out for a rest ride but I'll let the dust settle a bit and see what owners have to say about it in a year's time. It's probably a difficult thing to quantify but is the Haibike really 3 to 4 times better than a budget bike? I suppose it depends how one views things and what one's requirement are. I'm sure others will have different views on Haibike.
Regards,
Indalo
I for one am really looking forward to trying these bikes and was going to last Saturday morning...Unfortuntaly I have been diagnosed with DVT in lower leg and just got out of hospital this afternoon. Away for wedding this weekend in Wales and a few days on coast, so will try and get up to Sussex on my return. Like any new product you always take a risk being an early adopter. To expect everything irrespective of price point to be bomb proof is IMO plain daft, if I like it I will buy one but maybe the Trekking.
EDIT:
Just noticed the price is edging up again getting nearer the 3k mark! So maybe not.......
as for value I tried the Flyer X series last year and that is the best bike I have ever ridden, and that is a lot more expensive then these Haibikes. Cheaper 2k'ish bosch bikes are coming on stream soon..
EDIT:
Just noticed the price is edging up again getting nearer the 3k mark! So maybe not.......
as for value I tried the Flyer X series last year and that is the best bike I have ever ridden, and that is a lot more expensive then these Haibikes. Cheaper 2k'ish bosch bikes are coming on stream soon..
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