Help us build a better Ebike battery

[lnunell]

Hi all,

I am new to the ebike scene, but my company has started to develop an Ebike battery that can be fully charged in under 15 minutes and will be charged safer than traditional charging (our IP). We are looking to have this tech mainly sold to bike hire schemes (boris bikes) that will be used significantly but we see a market to sell to consumers also. We already have our technology in industrial applications and in single cell products but we are now pushing our technology towards Ebikes..

This is not a advertisement or marketing effort so we will not be saying what business we work for; but we are looking for current owners of ebikes to help us out with what really matters to you as owners. We are about 6 months away from full working 150 and 300Wh battery packs that can charge to 100% in under 15 minutes, below are the specification we are looking to achieving.

• 48 volt
• 32 cells in the pack with 2 in Parallel and 16 in series layout.
• The pack will be approximately 60% of the weight of the lead acid cells, saving weight.
• 15 minute charging to 100%
• 150 & 300Wh Pack
• 1500-2000 cycles (0-100% DOD)
• Total weight = 3Kg.
• Estimated range: 31 Mile (pedal assist).

We estimate that we will be able to retail the battery packs price wise to both Shimano and Bosch, we also know that our packs will last longer and be more durable. So 15 minute charging and longer life are the pros, but we will be seeing a slightly heavier pack and a larger charger to be able to power this kit.

Can you let me know what you would expect from this kit? What you miss on the current ebike batteries and motors? Desired features? What you think of the specs we have put above, and do you even care about 15 minute charging?

We want to really push the design and development to be ready this year but we feel contributions from the community will be a great addition to creating a great product.

Thanks,

Leigh.

 

[lnunell]

One of the options we are suggesting is the same 300Wh pack will be 30% heavier than the equivalent 300Wh on the market now; so do you prefer a lower Wh pack for the same weight or a heavier but equal power pack?

 

[craiggor]

If your batteries meet the specs price would be my biggest consideration, followed by weight,size then charge time. But 15 min charge time is fantastic. I expect you will get a lot of people on here offering to test your product, and may I be the first in line ?

 

[Fordulike]

It would be nice to see the pack capable of providing continuous currents of 20 amps+, without sagging badly or cycles dropping to unreasonable levels.

 

[lnunell]

If your batteries meet the specs price would be my biggest consideration, followed by weight,size then charge time. But 15 min charge time is fantastic. I expect you will get a lot of people on here offering to test your product, and may I be the first in line ?

I think our main target audience are people who do around the 30 mile mark as a commuter, so we think the battery pack for a 300Wh unit would be around 3kg, the reason we are also making a 150Wh version is so we can have ultra light units that can do 10-15 mile per charge that would be more focused on the bike hire side of things.

 

[lnunell]

It would be nice to see the pack capable of providing continuous currents of 20 amps+, without sagging badly or cycles dropping to unreasonable levels.

We have been focusing on the power density of our packs which means that not only can we charge in 15 minutes but we are easily able to output 60 amp continuous. We have also decided to use the 48v drive system as the higher voltage means less amps (higher efficiency). This also means there will be a much lower voltage sag compared to existing packs.

 

[Woosh]

48V (16S2P) 150WH and 300WH are niche products.
If you charge 100% the 150WH battery in 15 minutes, your charger outputs 700W, 1.4kW for the 300WH.
So tell us, what is the output current for your charger? 15 minutes for how much charge?

 

[lnunell]

48V (16S2P) 150WH and 300WH are niche products.
If you charge 100% the 150WH battery in 15 minutes, your charger outputs 700W, 1.4kW for the 300WH.
So tell us, what is the output current for your charger? 15 minutes for how much charge?

For the 150Wh version you require a 600W charger at 10.6 amps.

For the 300Wh verison you require a 1200W charger at 22 amps.

We have our own charging and connector tech so we are creating our own chargers that are able to handle these amp outputs.

Thanks

*edit* the watt ratings are outputs not inputs.

 

[ttxela]

Well I ride (for the last 3 weeks since buying the bike) a 30 mile round trip to work and back. The battery will easily do 2 days so for me a 15 minute charge time is not necessary, I have all night before I need it again.

 

[lnunell]

Well I ride (for the last 3 weeks since buying the bike) a 30 mile round trip to work and back. The battery will easily do 2 days so for me a 15 minute charge time is not necessary, I have all night before I need it again.

Hi Ttxela,

What is the battery pack and motor you are using?

I know that 15 minute charging will not appeal to everyone, we are either looking for someone who wants a lighter pack, more discreet and secure pack or just likes the idea of being able to recharge in time to go grab a drink

Thanks

 

[Benjahmin]

As a leisure/utility cyclist 300Wh would be too small. I currently use 540Wh and would look for slightly more, say 600Wh. I have 2hour charging at 4A and that's fine.
I can see the need for quick charge in the hire sector however.

Take your point about charging whilst having a coffee, but that means carrying the charger, think I'd rather have a larger battery ofsetting the weight of a charger.

 

[soundwave]

what cells are you using as everything i read says fast charging them dont do them any good esp over time.

 

[lnunell]

what cells are you using as everything i read says fast charging them dont do them any good esp over time.

We specialize in fast charging and you can fast charge cells with very minimal side effects as long as you are able to monitor certain variables then you are OK, our system basically lets the cells decide their charge rate instead of the charger. we see 1,500-2000 cycles on the cells we use.

 

[lnunell]

As a leisure/utility cyclist 300Wh would be too small. I currently use 540Wh and would look for slightly more, say 600Wh. I have 2hour charging at 4A and that's fine.
I can see the need for quick charge in the hire sector however.

Take your point about charging whilst having a coffee, but that means carrying the charger, think I'd rather have a larger battery offsetting the weight of a charger.

What is the range you get on that pack? how come you need such a large pack as most commercial units max out at 500Wh and the most sold Bosch pack is the 300Wh version.

 

[soundwave]

then answer the question what make cells are you using and post the spec sheet for them and what capacity they lose over say a year of use.

the gen 2 bosch batts are 400 and 500w and the range i get from the 500w is 25-30 miles.

 

[lnunell]

then answer the question what make cells are you using and post the spec sheet for them and what capacity they lose over say a year of use.

the gen 2 bosch batts are 400 and 500w and the range i get from the 500w is 25-30 miles.

We are evaluating two different manufacturers at the moment and are not giving out those specs yet.

What we want to know is what features you want/ problems & thoughts you have with your current setup and would you be interested in fast charging and why.

 

[soundwave]

i have a bosh bike and the bms cant be hacked and is software protected you remove it from the pack and it will never turn back on unless you have cracked the bosch software.

ie you cant even re cell the packs its impossible as no one has a 3rd party batt for them.

 

[Fordulike]

What we want to know is what features you want/ problems & thoughts you have with your current setup and would you be interested in fast charging and why.

During the warmer months, I tend to ride twice a day. Unfortunately, it's a six hour wait to charge up for the second ride, so yes, fast charging would be good for me.

 

[Woosh]

I think the 150WH pack in 16S2P use Lithium Ion Phosphate 1,500mAH cells. They are capable of 2C charge. The main issue is the high power charger. They need proper ventilation and cooling.

 

[lnunell]

i have a bosh bike and the bms cant be hacked and is software protected you remove it from the pack and it will never turn back on unless you have cracked the bosch software.

ie you cant even re cell the packs its impossible as no one has a 3rd party batt for them.

Hi,

We are not hacking the Bosch packs or motor system, we are making our own battery, BMS and Motor drive. I only mentioned Bosch as we want to compare with them favourably on price.

We know we can do it, what we want to know are what features etc the community is looking for.