how so cheap

[Joe]

Alien LYNX Folding Electric Bicycle Bike e-bike 18 Sp'd on eBay, also, Bikes, Cycling, Sporting Goods (end time 27-Feb-08 09:25:05 GMT)

with the price of batteries,controllers and motors etc how can bikes like this be so cheap?

between this extreme and the likes of kalkhoff and gazelle around £1500
is the achievable mass market electric bike of the future around £600-700

at present it seems like the cheap end is too cheap to trust and the other end a gamble until battery technology and dealer back up is more of a certainty than at present.

what do you think?

 

[fishingpaul]

I think it would be rather low powered,and probably of cheap construction,but then some bikes costing £700+ have been known to use low quality parts,its quite light if their figures are correct and include the battery,it would be a bit of a gamble buying one,but even some £1200 bikes have been unreliable.

 

[fishingpaul]

I forgot to answer how can they be so cheap,when buying a container load of bikes from china,and then selling on ebay a small profit would be acceptable,when selling from a proper shop or warehouse there are high rents and overheads so profit margin must be higher, if you buy from a shop you can always take it back,you can also see the bike and maybe test it,this item is buying a photo, some look better in real life some are very dissapointing.

 

[flecc]

There's also the compounding effect. The manufacturer and importer prepared to support the product must both charge more, so any shipping insurances, import duties and VAT added to that higher amount are also proportionately higher, the increases at every stage expanding the total disproportionately.
.

 

[keithhazel]

I forgot to answer how can they be so cheap,when buying a container load of bikes from china,and then selling on ebay
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i think possibly that phrase " buying a container load from china" came from one of my postings about this seller, i only stated that was the bike in question, the "lapland"......these further higher quality bikes he is now selling may well be in the same way sourced that any other retailer gets them we dont know."a container load from china" sounds a little bit disrespectful to him, especially as he gives excellant service, i had problems and instantly he was happy to take back and refund or another to me, whatever i wished....he is a man trying to start a business in the best way he knows and if we look at his feedback its 100% happy customers.....even me and my bikje didnt work...

 

[John Fleet]

Hi Keith

I had problems and instantly he was happy to take back and refund or another to me, whatever i wished..

what did you buy from this guy? I'm seriously tempted by the folder which seems to tick a lot of boxes for me (and for my wife whom I'm trying to get back into cycling after she had a major op - we went and had a try on the Quando last year but I think that she was put off by its size and weight).

As you say the guy's feedback is very good and at the price it's not such a major risk whilst we all wait for the mythical Agutta's to actually materialise in numbers....

John

 

[keithhazel]

Hi Keith

I had problems and instantly he was happy to take back and refund or another to me, whatever i wished..

what did you buy from this guy? I'm seriously tempted by the folder which seems to tick a lot of boxes for me
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hi john,
i bought the "lapland"....now my test results will not be in the same technical way like Flecc here..lol...
the first one he sent me was an error as he said it must have got mixed up with a return, so another was sent, the "lapland"....unfortunatly i have to say that the cable with the charger failed to come but he sent another immediatly, however i should point out that when i bought my Quando and a spare charger that second charger also came without a cable...that too was immediatly sent out so it happens...i never got much of a chance for test ride because when i went out on it there was a fault, the power went on and off. felt like some wire shorting as off and on and off and on...power was there, was a 36 volt battery built into the rear wheel, however i have to say it looked poor as looked like cheap alloy metal the batteries where cased in, but that might be normal and just me...the handle bars folded down in a real rubbish way too....and i mean rubbishy....you lifted the whole stem up and out and then just layed it by the side, not like the Quando that hinges sideways and folds flat, real suprised to hear you say its heavy....i pop on and off the train with mine, the other day turfed off one end of the train and had to nip up other end with it ...lifeted with one hand.. the whole bike weighs only 23kg..the battery alone for my powerbyke weighs 14kg...when you take in a cra and you take out the battery and seat its really very manageable then.....but if you tried and found a bit heavy then you know what you are looking for.....back to the laplands, he does other bikes now but for me any bike that says 24volt battery is a no no..i had a synergy folder befor my Quando and although it was more comfy and actally more fun to ride it just had no "balls" in any wind or gradients where the Quando knows "no fear"........but he has many people saying what fun the laplands are but also if someone is on the large size they are a bit dinky...and the bottom line with folders is that no matter how they suit your purpose..ie for me train/car/bus...and even on their own....fun to ride yes..but relaxing sunday ride they are not as you need to use extra strength and awareness on small wheel bikes as apposed to full size ones....i was put off too as my synergy was from about 20 miles of where the lapland came from and when i thought i had a fault and put it to them i got back "pop into the workshop and have a word with bob"......which when you are 250 miles away is maybe not really a good thing.......like buying a car or anything else that costs you money..for me it will be in future always a test ride...you wouldnt buy a cra or a house without seeing it first would you....although for my Quando i did have the full recomendation of Flecc and he tells it as it is..."its the one for you keith, now buy one and stop asking me all these bloody questions "......(part of that is not 100% true)....one thing to try john is to look at his people he has sold to and send them questions about the bike, some will reply.......

 

[Charlie]

I wonder if someone who lived close to him would be willing to request a test ride, with the prior understanding that it would be reported back on this forum.

If it's a decent enough bike, a win win situation for everybody.

Charlie.

 

[joab]

What you pay is what you get, if you only pay peanuts, you only get monkeys. This is also valid for e-bikes.

 

[keithhazel]

What you pay is what you get, if you only pay peanuts, you only get monkeys. This is also valid for e-bikes.

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depends on the price of peanuts....yes £300-£400 is cheap for a good quality e-bike but its still not peanuts and a lot of money......unless you then put it into a comparison that a new battery for an eezze costs £285 with a whole 6 month warranty. .......and then i really dont know about the price of peanuts anymore..

 

[coops]

I'm not aware of the current ezee battery prices, but I assume you mean a lithium battery costs £285?

When I bought my bike, ezee NiMH were available for about ~£150, and I realise NiMH cost more now, but can they not still be bought, as cellpacks or individual cells, to recell an ezee case (as others have done) for rather less than £285, and with a likely 2 years minimum lifetime with normal use, for anyone who doesn't want to buy the current lithiums and can't wait for an improved battery type?

All I'm saying is that £285, if that price is correct, for 6mths use is not the only option available .

With regard to the 'how so cheap' question, I think if anyone buys a bike of uncertain quality with little or no support, then you get what you pay for, so exactly that. To me its a gamble and not a cheap one at that. Its been said before that ebikes do cost more than normal bikes & quality & support cost extra on top.

Several members have bought the 'lapland', at different times, and have very different accounts of it, so maybe it depends on your point of view, or they improved it in between... but having read whats been said it seems clear to me that while some might regard it as 'decent enough' others equally won't so I think 'to each their own' is the best conclusion, as has been reached before when this topic has been discussed.

Stuart.

 

[keithhazel]

I'm not aware of the current ezee battery prices, but I assume you mean a lithium battery costs £285?



Several members have bought the 'lapland', at different times, and have very different accounts of it, so maybe it depends on your point of view,

Stuart.

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yes £285 was the ezee current price to get a new li-lion one, although at the time they was unavailable...was even a time when seriously thinking of getting one and only way to get one was to buy another Quando as some time in the future my g/f was going to want one, but with the battery situation not being reliable enough that idea was quashed.....even funnier was when i got my "lapland" i was lucky and think i got it for £250....now if i had not got a dodgy one i might have been riding round on a fast little folder still for less then the price of a new battery...lol.......and many are....
however if that had happened i would not be writing this message

 

[flecc]

When I bought my bike, ezee NiMH were available for about ~£150, and I realise NiMH cost more now, but can they not still be bought, as cellpacks or individual cells, to recell an ezee case (as others have done) for rather less than £285, and with a likely 2 years minimum lifetime with normal use, for anyone who doesn't want to buy the current lithiums and can't wait for an improved battery type?

The problem with recelling their NiMh is that the cells are in six vertical columns of 5 cells each. No-one makes a replacement pack like that, and construction with reliable connections is very difficult, there being very little spare vertical space for soldered wire joins. Using a column jig with simultaneous soldering of the cell ends with a hammer head soldering iron and an immediate compression bond is best, but it's a tricky operation to avoid damage. Tightly bound with contact joins seems to work, but long term is not perhaps so certain. The other snag is that the best cells are mostly around £10 now NiMh are getting scarcer, so that's £300 just for the cells. Ouch!


The eZee Li-ion battery is £280 now. I think that's probably too cheap for the battery to be of the highest quality. The two best on the market are the Panasonic unit's 26 volt 10 Ah Li-ion at £305 (made by Sanyo in fact), and the BionX 36 volt one at £450. You can see from those prices how the eZee one is out of line, since the going rate for the best seems to be about £150 per 12 volts @ 10Ah. The new Giant twist 1 has it's high quality Li-ions at that higher cost also, £600 for two 26 volt 10Ah.

Not a popular notion with most, but realistic.

As a previous poster remarked, you get what you pay for.
.

 

[keithhazel]

The eZee Li-ion battery is £280 now. I think that's probably too cheap for the battery to be of the highest quality.

As a previous poster remarked, you get what you pay for.
.[/QUOTE]
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in relation to the length of warranty you get for your £285 delivered..or was last i saw.....are we gambling that we pay cheap and hope we get a long lasting one as £285 for 6 months isnt good is it....dont these others offer 2 year warranty ?...even on that e-bay site for them "alien" bikes that where cheapish...he offers 12 months warranty on major components includeing battery...

 

[flecc]

If he's still there in a few months time to honour it.

Many of these "warranties" are worthless. I remember another name with cheap bikes that suddenly appeared and said there was a two year warranty on a similarly tiny battery to that Alien one. When questioned about it, their website suddenly changed it to a one year warranty. Lately I've heard nothing of them, so they may have disappeared. All that within the one year, so much for the warranty.

No comment on the other, this subject has been done to death Keith.
.

 

[keithhazel]

i only know the guy on e-bay has been around a year and yes you dont know if he is coming or going, how long befor you trust i guess, do you have to see a big building and a website maybe....

as for the other i wasnt genuinely starting up some old topic, i just read your one and didnt understand in which way you meant the comment about the ezzee ones being too cheap..and i i have found out it would have been cheaper for me to spend the large amount i have on my Quando then the 4 other foldups i did...i didnt take a bashing on them but small amounts and time and messing.....if i had been able to have a good demo of Quando i would have got it in the first place with the knowledge of the others in mind....i will be happy if you would pm message me on what you meant....in no way was i intending re hashing....

 

[flecc]

Nothing really to say on it Keith, it was just a reference to the wisdom or not of a manufacturer trying too hard to keep a price down. In this area I think it's best to choose the best in the first place, and let us put up with the price.

In this case the manufacturer had been absolutely assured by the battery company that the battery was up to the job, which it clearly wasn't. So the manufacturer was just as much a victim as the end users, and is as unhappy as them about it. It's also cost him a whole lot more than any of us.

The end. Please.
.

 

[joab]

I spent 1100 euro on my ezee kit, seems a lot of money (not peanuts) but by not using my car anymore to commute I will have this 1100 euro back in 6 months time. I'm not to worried about the battery live.

 

[fishingpaul]

Yes these amounts spent on bikes are quite reasonable if you are giving up your car,but if you continue to keep a car on the road,the savings against costs are minimal.and are only usefull if you want to get fit,rather than save money.in many cases it would be cheaper to buy a scooter rather than a electric bike,if pure assistance is the main purpose,buy a scooter or motorbike,otherwise look at panasonic powered bikes,or powabykes.