Is there a bike that meets my requirements?

[danfoto]

Apart from some of the Gazelle models, is there an ebike which has ...

Step-through frame
Upright riding position
Crank motor of not less than 70Nm torque
Shimano hub gears
Disc brakes
Either belt drive or full chaincase
Rear carrier rated not less than 20Kg
Side stand

 

[sjpt]

Not quite, but nearly ...

Cube Supreme Hybrid One 400 Electric Bike In Lunar/Grey

Cube Supreme Hybrid One 400 Electric Bike In Lunar/Grey £2111.00

www.theelectricbikeshop.co.uk

Claims 65Mn torque, and I can't see a rear carrier rating (and doesn't look all that robust)

 

[danfoto]

Thanks - I hadn't spotted that one in my searching! Seems to be very good value for money, but as you say the carrier doesn't look up to much. That wouldn't b a deal-breaker though if I could think of a way of beefing it up, but what makes it a no-no for me is the quoted torque figure. Unfortunately experience has led me to rule out anything quoting less than 70Nm. (Yes I know a lot of it's down to how they measure that torque, but I also know that if I really do have to wait until later this year to get 75Nm and all my other boxes ticked by a particular Gazelle, c'est la vie ...)

 

[soundwave]

Haibike Trekking 8 2023 Low Electric Bike – e-bikeshop.co.uk

The Haibike Trekking 8 Low 2023 electric bike is a higher spec model featuring the Bosch Performance CX eBike motor and their biggest 750Wh battery.

www.e-bikeshop.co.uk

Cube Kathmandu Hybrid Pro 750 2024 Easy – e-bikeshop.co.uk

The 2024 Cube Kathmandu Hybrid Pro 750 Easy Entry electric bike is a gateway to effortless exploration. An e-bike engineered for convenience and freedom.

www.e-bikeshop.co.uk

Discover the Riese & Müller Homage e-bike | EDEMO UK

The Homage e-bike from Riese & Müller is ideal for city riding. Get a quote for a Riese & Müller Homage e-bike or book a test ride.

edemo.bike

 

[snafu]

Just curious why you specify Crank Drive?

Ok it doesn't have a chain guard either but the Cyrusher Kommoda looks pretty good. I have an XF650 and it appears to have the same rear rack (Which is very substantial).

Components appear up to the job and the bike seems very well put together for the price. I'm probably one of the few who having tried both prefer a hub drive. A crank drive without doubt gives a more natural experience but a hub drive also has the advantage of less stress on the drive chain and you can "Ghost Pedal" in the event of a drive chain failure. (Or use the throttle).

I have removed the throttle and re programmed the display on mine to limit the speed to 25kph. (Cyrusher also provide a helpful motor sticker stating 0.25kwh - Although the motor is actually 1KW. Hopefully this is good enough for Mr Plod).

48V and a 14ah battery on the Kommoda should mean range isn't an issue. (I've done 55m on my XF650 (48V 16ah) with two bars left on the display.

TTFN
John.

 

[guerney]

Step-through frame
Upright riding position
Crank motor of not less than 70Nm torque
Shimano hub gears
Disc brakes
Either belt drive or full chaincase
Rear carrier rated not less than 20Kg
Side stand

+ Mudguards?

 

[sjpt]

(Cyrusher also provide a helpful motor sticker stating 0.25kwh - Although the motor is actually 1KW. Hopefully this is good enough for Mr Plod).

Are they called Cyrusher as a reminder of what the police would do it they confiscated it?

 

[danfoto]

Haibike Trekking 8 2023 Low Electric Bike – e-bikeshop.co.uk

The Haibike Trekking 8 Low 2023 electric bike is a higher spec model featuring the Bosch Performance CX eBike motor and their biggest 750Wh battery.

www.e-bikeshop.co.uk

Cube Kathmandu Hybrid Pro 750 2024 Easy – e-bikeshop.co.uk

The 2024 Cube Kathmandu Hybrid Pro 750 Easy Entry electric bike is a gateway to effortless exploration. An e-bike engineered for convenience and freedom.

www.e-bikeshop.co.uk

Discover the Riese & Müller Homage e-bike | EDEMO UK

The Homage e-bike from Riese & Müller is ideal for city riding. Get a quote for a Riese & Müller Homage e-bike or book a test ride.

edemo.bike

Sorry - been internetless for a while so on ly just seen this. Thanks, but the first two are non-starters 'cos they have derailleur gears and the third's way over budget. Interesting that the Haibike has a sensible-looking carrier but the Cube one's an engineering nonsense!

 

[danfoto]

Just curious why you specify Crank Drive?

Ermmm ... because that's what I want? Hub gears too.

... the Cyrusher Kommoda looks pretty good.

Alas, to me it looks anything but. Plus the fact that the bit about the sticker kills it stone dead AFAIC. Boring old fart I may well be, but that sort of lark is not for me

 

[soundwave]

normal hub gears wont take the amount of nm that you want from the motor so there is only one you can get and it is expensive.

https://www.rohloff.de/en/products/speedhub

 

[danfoto]

normal hub gears wont take the amount of nm that you want from the motor ...

Eh? I'm on about production ebikes which come from major manufacturers, which don't come with normal hub gears - e.g. the 2023 Gazelle Grenoble C5 HMB which has a Bosch motor rated at 75Nm and the Shimano 5-speed ebike hub.

 

[soundwave]

well you have a 2 year warranty but those things dont like motors with high nm so dont be surprised if you brake it.

plenty of normal shimano wheel hubs have failed let alone hub gears and why with high nm motors they use the rolloff ones.

Active Line Plus: the innovative Bosch motor for eBikes

The Active Line ensures smooth, agile acceleration and enables easy handling. The barely perceptible pedal resistance above 25 km/h increases the fun factor.

www.bosch-ebike.com

thats what motor they recommend for cheap hub gears but it is up to you

 

[danfoto]

Sorry, I don't follow your line of thought,

 

[soundwave]

those hub gears was never made for the power and waight of a ebike let alone another 20kg on top of that i doubt it would last long.

they put 50 quid hubs on ebikes that costs 4-5k and are toast in weeks.

 

[AndyBike]

Raleigh Centros £3k
Bosch performance line/75nm/625wh/SKS Mudguards/chainguard/belt/stand//racktime rack/lights/shimano disc brakes/4A charger/Shimano nexus 8 speeed.
Most racktime racks are about 25kg.

https://www.raleigh.co.uk/gb/en/centros-hub-gear/low-step/?attrMarketingColor=Silver%20%26%20Mint

 

[Bonzo Banana]

Raleigh Centros £3k
Bosch performance line/75nm/625wh/SKS Mudguards/chainguard/belt/stand//racktime rack/lights/shimano disc brakes/4A charger/Shimano nexus 8 speeed.
Most racktime racks are about 25kg.

https://www.raleigh.co.uk/gb/en/centros-hub-gear/low-step/?attrMarketingColor=Silver%20%26%20Mint

On that link why don't they clearly state the motor torque and chainring size. It would seem important parts of the spec to include. On some of the earlier Bosch mid-drive motors ebikes with hub gears the motors had lower torque motors to protect the hub gears of 40Nm but its not clear what is happening here. Ultimately though this is a disposable product, if the Nexus fails, the mid-drive motor fails, the battery fails or is end of life or the frame cracks the cost of replacing those parts is uneconomic. I seem to remember a Nexus 8 might be expected to get to 20,000km or thereabouts but combined with a mid-drive motor you could be looking around 7-8,000 miles with a lot more early failures however combined with a front hub motor you would probably be looking at 30-40,000 kilometres. I guess with a 40Nm Bosch motor that 7-8,000 would be conservative and perhaps 10,000 or more is expected.

With the motor assisting why do you need so many gears anyway, I would of thought a more durable 3 speed hub would get the job done and you could combine those with more powerful mid-drive motors because they are mechanically much simpler and more durable.

I personally don't see the point of mid-drive for a general use commuting type ebike unless you are very weak and frail. Hub motors massively reduce drivetrain wear and are much simpler so have on average much better reliability. You also have unrestricted choices for your drivetrain with 3x cranksets being an option if you want it or 2x. The fact the motor works independently means the chances of a chain breaking is extremely rare and if it does you can still pedal without a chain to keep the motor working. Mid-drive just isn't a great option for long distance riding and getting the miles in.

 

[guerney]

I personally don't see the point of mid-drive for a general use commuting type ebike unless you are very weak and frail.

I don't think a legal hub drive exists for my uses, if there was, I'd buy one: towing heavy bike trailers up steep hills. 80nm at the crank is barely enough, and I'm not frail nor weak. When I don't need high torque, I need speed for commuting - a mid-drive for me is the ideal and legal all rounder. A complete motor unit with controller is less than £400, which is an acceptable cost (not that purchasing a complete new motor would be necessary, many Bafang BBSXX(X) spares are available) every few years.

 

[soundwave]

the bafangs are not road legal tho same as the hub motors because you can change the settings in the controllers like everything you can buy on ebay ect as the ones that did sell locked systems all went bust lol.


i cant do that so why i have to use a dongle.

Derestriction, ‘off-road’ switches or modes and dongles

The Department of Transport say that electric bikes fitted with off-road switches or modes, that enable a bike’s motor to continue assisting to speeds beyond 15.5mph, do not comply with UK EAPC law. The term ‘off-road’ suggests that these bikes can be ridden on parkland, forests or other places away from main roads, which isn’t accurate. E-bikes with increased motor power (continuous rated power above 250w) or increased speed (with motor assistance not cutting out at 15.5mph) cannot be used legally as bicycles anywhere on land accessible by the public; when riding on private land you would need permission from the landowner

 

[guerney]

the bafangs are not road legal tho same as the hub motors.....The Department of Transport say that electric bikes fitted with off-road switches or modes, that enable a bike’s motor to continue assisting to speeds beyond 15.5mph, do not comply with UK EAPC law. The term ‘off-road’ suggests that these bikes can be ridden on parkland, forests or other places away from main roads, which isn’t accurate. E-bikes with increased motor power (continuous rated power above 250w) or increased speed (with motor assistance not cutting out at 15.5mph) cannot be used legally as bicycles anywhere on land accessible by the public; when riding on private land you would need permission from the landowner

switch

1. a device for making and breaking the connection in an electric circuit.

I don't have an off-road switch or modes - to change the speed limit, I'd have to stop, disconnect the display, connect the USB to the display cable, connect that to the laptop, phone or tablet, and reprogram the firmware... not an instantaneous switch. I could set the firmware to cede to the display in terms of speed limit, but that's no an instantaneous switch either - I couldn't press buttons and go scrolling through menus etc. while riding to increase speed limit. And the "250W" rating is engraved by the manufacturer to the bottom of my motor casing. "See that? Fuck off copper... Whaddya mean it's not legal?!? You'll never take me alive copper! Don't tase me bro!"

 

[soundwave]

the fact that you can change modes means it is not road legal, like i said i need a dongle to do this i cant plug it in and do anything.

every one thinks they can get a ebike and set the controller to legal settings but if you kill someone good luck with that as it is still a point of law like it or not and you will loose.

but no one gives a crap so get a hd 1000w asap

 

[guerney]

the fact that you can change modes means it is not road legal

By that logic all Bosch bikes sold as legal, are illegal because dongles can de-restrict speed, instantly or otherwise. Just because a device is hackable, doesn't make that device illegal.

On my bike, it's not an instantaneous switch or mode change to de-restrict speed - it's a hack with several steps, which can't be done instataneously while riding the bike.

like i said i need a dongle to do this i cant plug it in and do anything.

A dongle plug-in to de-restrict speed, sounds more like an instantaneous mode change or switch. Which isn't what I've got.

but no one gives a crap so get a hd 1000w asap

Ah but then I'd need to buy more expensive batteries, wouldn't get as much range for the same battery weight, battery lifespan would be shorter etc.

every one thinks they can get a ebike and set the controller to legal settings but if you kill someone good luck with that as it is still a point of law like it or not and you will loose.

I'd lose instantly if the motor was rated by the manufacturer at 1000W and embossed as such.

good luck with that

They'll never take me alive!