Is This A Flecc Creation?

Ian

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Apr 1, 2007
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Whist casually browsing the 50cycles blog I came across this photo. At first glance it's an Ezee Torq, it even has the Torq logo on the down tube, but look closer, suspension forks and a motor rather larger than the usual Torq motor, and while I can't be certain, the front wheel looks smaller, 26" perhaps.
The countryside looks very Leicestershire so has Flecc got a counterpart in the midlands?
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Not mine Ian, but I think that's probably the prototype for the F series, since that looks like the Sprint motor, possibly in US 350 watt form. That's probably the Loughborough area.

Essentially an F series bike is a Torq with 26" wheels, suspension fork and US Sprint motor of course.
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Ian

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Yes, it looks like a straightforward Torq-Sprint hybrid, a little bit too conventional to be a Flecc bike. I bet those forks spoil the Torqs handling though.
 

flecc

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I bet they do, but as long as a couple of sea-sickness pills are taken before riding, they should be bearable. :D
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coops

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Jan 18, 2007
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Nice spot Ian :) I'm sure I've seen that picture before but never noticed.

So, this isn't the only website with hidden features then...:rolleyes:.

Could use the sharp eyes of some members here to help spot the clues for flecc's latest project too... ;) :D.

On a serious note, about the forks on that f-series "prototype", wouldn't they be more or less the same as the f-series handling-wise?

Stuart.
 

flecc

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On a serious note, about the forks on that f-series "prototype", wouldn't they be more or less the same as the f-series handling-wise?

Stuart.
I'd presume so, as with all bike suspension forks, a bit like a boat's rudder in permitting an approximate general direction to be set. :D
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coops

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Jan 18, 2007
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When you put it like that... I see what you mean :rolleyes: ...and the true cyclist in me gets a little stronger & wiser :D...

I used to get travel sick, let alone sea sick, and I'm afraid all the seafaring metaphors are making me a bit queasy :eek:.

However, I suppose I should count myself lucky that I grew up riding bikes that hadn't even heard of suspension or wide tyres (and I never considered them as needed... except on the odd bumpy off-road foray), since experience of such bikes nowadays seems rare indeed :rolleyes:.
 
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flecc

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However, I suppose I should count myself lucky that I grew up riding bikes that hadn't even heard of suspension or wide tyres (and I never considered them as needed... except on the odd bumpy off-road foray)
Me too!

The fact is, cars needed suspension and quickly gained it in their early days, motor cycles needed front suspension and equally quickly gained it, but pushbikes didn't need it and therefore didn't get it.

That was not because it wasn't available, there were several attempts to introduce it for bikes from the mid 1890s on, but cyclists just didn't want it or feel it necessary.

It was only when the creation of the mountain bike also created a degree of need for it that it was adopted at all, and that wouldn't have mattered but for a rather foolish public falling for the macho image and starting to use them on the road.

And as you say Stuart, there are generations now who know no different and consider it and fat tyres to be essential. More fool them, for they have to work very hard indeed to compensate for the inefficiency of their choice, and that causes me no problems. What does concern me is the way this silly fashion has eradicated sensible utility bikes in the UK. Not so in Europe's main cycling countries though, where they still know what makes a good bike.

And that sums up the difference. The utility cyclists in other countries rarely buy a bike and use their old but good bikes for many years as we used to, while in the UK the public now buy two million new bikes every year and don't ride them.

Ironically, this foolishness actually helps our e-bike cause, because when the few who do try to keep riding find how difficult it is to pedal today's cumbersome sprung monstrosities, they feel the need to seek out some power assist. "It's an ill wind" as the saying goes!
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Ian

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Apr 1, 2007
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Stuart, one of the reasons I probably won't buy an F series is because it has suspension forks (1400 quid is another reason ;) ). As Flecc has pointed out suspension was first used on mountain bikes but quickly adopted by a fashion conscious public, many of whom drive equally unsuitable large 4 wheel drive vehicles in our overcrowded cities.

In actual fact serious mountain bikers have always had their suspension set so hard that it will only deflect under shocks that would otherwise damage the bike, serious designers and and riders being well aware of the adverse effects of suspension. Some high end mountain bike forks have the facility to lock the suspension altogether.

My Sprint has suspension forks and a lovely smooth ride, but compared to the Torq it has very sloppy handling which for me makes it much less fun to ride.
 

hobo1

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Mar 31, 2007
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Give me the smooth ride any day. Sus' forks should not be too soft & spongy (as on the cheaper ones), but firmer just to even out the bumps. It's really what you loose in one direction you gain in another. After using sus' forks for many years I find the rigid forks strange. I suppose its a lot to do with what we get use too.

Cheers, David.
 

flecc

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Thanks David, I very much agree that everyone should have the bike they want to use and any penalty they suffer from that is not my concern.

As I said above, my concern is the way that the fashion has wiped out the choice of a sensible utility bike in the UK. Dealers don't have any for customers to try, and after 30 years of the mountain bike there are actually dealers now who don't know what makes an efficient bike. What we have in the main cycle market now is a great hole in the range of choice, between out and out uncompromising sports racers or pseudo mountain bikes.

To illustrate how ridiculous that is, imagine the same situation in the car market, a future where the only choice was 4 x 4 monsters, or out and out performance sports cars, but no hatchbacks or saloons.

In the electric assist market, the pseudo utility bike fitted with fat tyres and suspension which spoil it for it's true purpose is a sorry extension of that trend. I'm happy for it to exist, just so long as there's a choice for those of us who know different, but it's that lack of choice which caused me to create my own Q bike. The majority who can't do that are being denied choice.
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coops

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Jan 18, 2007
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It was an eyeopener to me when I read your account, flecc, here (over several posts) of how modern "fashion" had virtually eliminated well-designed & efficient bikes from the shops, and its strange to think mine must be one of the last generations to have grown up riding bikes free from unnecessary inefficiencies... but the irony that it may drive some to seek power assistance on a bike isn't lost on me! I'd almost forgotten how a "normal" bike feels, but hopefully I'm finding my way back to them now... with motor power added too, its a good combination, which I think I'll keep using! :D.

Thanks for your thoughts Ian, much appreciated :). Its good to have awareness why some features on bikes feel not quite right, and what makes for good design & riding efficiency. I've never been a follower of fashion, and I certainly don't intend to start now :D.

Getting back vaguely on-topic... and doing away with suspension, how about a Torq with a rear-wheel f-series-type motor in 28" wheel (that's only slightly geared up from 26" :rolleyes:) and V-brakes fitted front & rear like flecc's Torq Radical? (Plus a spare NiMH battery or two in panniers;)).
 

flecc

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how about a Torq with a rear-wheel f-series-type motor in 28" wheel (that's only slightly geared up from 26" :rolleyes:) and V-brakes fitted front & rear like flecc's Torq Radical? (Plus a spare NiMH battery or two in panniers;)).
That would go well Stuart. In essence you'd be repeating the Quando to Torq story, a motor transferred to a larger wheel, swapping hill climbing for speed, though in this case to a lesser degree.

It would power to almost 24 mph in favourable conditions on the flat, and be good for up to 14% hills for most riders, steeper hills needing good rider fitness but still viable for many. I've a suspicion the Sprint motor spindle might not be long enough to accommodate a multi-sprocket freewheel though, even with some of my existing trickery.

There's a way round that though. :)
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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That's right David, my last unpowered bike was one of those Marins, and there are one or two others.

But most people going into a bike shop don't get to see one, more so if it's a mainstream or discount outfit. Very few dealers bother to stock something they'd have to sell, as opposed to the lazy option of letting people just walk in and buy one of the compromised designs. And that of course is where my mention of the technical ignorance of many newer dealers comes in, they don't stock because they don't know or even appreciate there's a difference.

And for those who want electric assist for very hilly areas or trailer pulling like me, there's no Marin equivalents in the ranges on offer.
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Ian

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As you say David Marin produce a full range, likewise with Giant and the other major manufactuters and these bikes are stocked by good bike shops.

The problem seems to be many people don't buy bikes from bike shops, preferring instead to visit the cloned sports shops and supermarkets which are springing up on identical looking retail parks all over the country and who's sole aim is to give the customer what they think they want. Such shops are full of cool looking but often impractical bikes because thats what the customers want and the staff are not knowledgeable enough, or not allowed to tell them otherwise. I was recently browsing a new outdoor leisure store in Loughborough, there were a number of bikes on display but all were fat tyred mtb types or BMX's, not a city bike, roadster or even a road racing bike to be seen anywhere.
 

coops

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Jan 18, 2007
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Manchester U.K.
flecc said:
In essence you'd be repeating the Quando to Torq story, a motor transferred to a larger wheel, swapping hill climbing for speed, though in this case to a lesser degree.
It'd be useful if such a hypothetical :rolleyes: motor could be internally geared down appropriately for a 28" wheel to give the same, or better, torque for hills and around the same top speed as in 26" wheels: 24mph is much less of a requirement to me than the lower speed torque :).

flecc said:
I've a suspicion the Sprint motor spindle might not be long enough to accommodate a multi-sprocket freewheel though, even with some of my existing trickery.

There's a way round that though. :)
I might have guessed! :D I don't think I'm up to trying any front-to-rear type motor "refits" though, so I'd have to follow a more conventional route :).

hobo1 said:
Perhaps this forum can have influence in the variety & choise of electric bikes in the future. That certainly would be a good achievment.
I'll second that David! :D
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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It'd be useful if such a hypothetical :rolleyes: motor could be internally geared down appropriately for a 28" wheel to give the same, or better, torque for hills and around the same top speed as in 26" wheels: 24mph is much less of a requirement to me than the lower speed torque :).
Gearing down would be too complex and expensive an option, better to buy an F series and fit a rigid fork at the same time as swapping the motor to the rear. An engineering company could make a steel spindle adaptor for that purpose and turn and fit a freewheel thread boss from a DMR hub, but the overall cost would be approaching Swizzbee territory.

Alternatively, just buy the new unrestricted high power Wisper 905se with rear motor for £1000, then fit rigid forks and decent tyres.
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