is this a silly question?
- Thread starter Laura
- Start date
I don't think there are any silly questions Laura, if an answer is needed the question is justified. 
Yes, strictly speaking, an off road button under the rider control is illegal. The law is clear that an e-bike cannot be capable of being assisted at over 15.5 mph. Any bike that has the capability of exceeding that is subject to motor vehicle regulations.
I understand that there is a 10% tolerance allowed, so up to 17 mph is acceptable.
An enclosed link or switch which the rider cannot reach while riding and which is set to the legal limit while on the road is arguably legal.
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Yes, strictly speaking, an off road button under the rider control is illegal. The law is clear that an e-bike cannot be capable of being assisted at over 15.5 mph. Any bike that has the capability of exceeding that is subject to motor vehicle regulations.
I understand that there is a 10% tolerance allowed, so up to 17 mph is acceptable.
An enclosed link or switch which the rider cannot reach while riding and which is set to the legal limit while on the road is arguably legal.
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Providing you keep it off road it is perfectly legal. All fast ebikes are legal -it is not an offence to sell a 20+mph bike - the illegality lies with the rider and any 'on' road use .
[Sorry Flecc -you got in before me - and with a far more useful / practical reply !!!
[Sorry Flecc -you got in before me - and with a far more useful / practical reply !!!
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Laura: if you're riding your bike (with off-road switch) through rough housing estates, delivering suspect small packages and collecting wads of £10 or £20 notes, then be worried. The old bill, once they stop you, will probably have a look at your bike, too, and do you for that as well.
Whereas.... the odds on 'normal' riders being stopped and/or having their bikes closely examined is currently close to nil, and with the government's promised 'savings' (read: cuts), are likely to be even closer to nil in the next few years.
A.
Whereas.... the odds on 'normal' riders being stopped and/or having their bikes closely examined is currently close to nil, and with the government's promised 'savings' (read: cuts), are likely to be even closer to nil in the next few years.
A.
I doubt that there's legal precedent established in this matter but I can see the potential for some lovely argument in a courtroom one day should the matter ever need to be settled in court.
Think conspiracy here, (makers/sellers conspiring with buyers to break the law, specifically those parts of legislation pertaining to ebikes.) Think also, "accessory before the fact" as, were I expecting to be convicted of the illegal use of my "turbo" or "off-road" facility, I'd be suggesting that it seemed ok to me otherwise, the maker & seller wouldn't have fitted/supplied it where I could access it easily without tools.
There comes a point at which another form of transport becomes more appropriate than an electric bicycle and speed and power figure highly in that regard. That's probably why there needs to be legislation, whether we agree with the fine detail or not.
Indalo
Think conspiracy here, (makers/sellers conspiring with buyers to break the law, specifically those parts of legislation pertaining to ebikes.) Think also, "accessory before the fact" as, were I expecting to be convicted of the illegal use of my "turbo" or "off-road" facility, I'd be suggesting that it seemed ok to me otherwise, the maker & seller wouldn't have fitted/supplied it where I could access it easily without tools.
There comes a point at which another form of transport becomes more appropriate than an electric bicycle and speed and power figure highly in that regard. That's probably why there needs to be legislation, whether we agree with the fine detail or not.
Indalo
Love the idea of off road bikes being subject to moor vehicle regulations
. I've just spotted and altered that clanger before seeing your post.Seemed to infer that moorland is a special form of off-road. As I've often said, I'm still a lousy typist despite my near 17,000 posts.
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It is not illegal to own or use a motor vehicle capable of 120 mph on U.K. roads.
The illegality lies in using the high speed. It is illegal to use a 17mph + ebike on the road . However if taxed / insured / registered etc[as with a car] the bike would be legal.
The illegality lies in using the high speed. It is illegal to use a 17mph + ebike on the road . However if taxed / insured / registered etc[as with a car] the bike would be legal.
The answer is in fact very simple and logical Laura.i didn't mean driving the car at 120mph, i just meant all cars on the road are capable of doing such speeds.
Car drivers have to learn to drive, pass a test of competence including highway code questions to show they understand the law, they have to be insured to protect other's interests and they have to drive traceable registered vehicles, taxed to cover some of their costs to the community.
E-bike riders are a completely unknown, untested and untraceable group with nothing known or tested about their mental and physical competence. They are not insured to protect others interests and in the UK they can be as young as 14 years. Elsewhere there is no lower age limit. As such they cannot be let loose on unrestricted vehicles. Since bicycles are accepted to be safe for anyone, restricting to bicycle like performance makes sense and is consistent.
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Laura:
I've never been wholly convinced by the argument Flecc puts up, that of licensing etc, as it seems to me a bit like teaching people how to shoot guns, then giving them guns and saying "Whatever you do DON'T shoot people." Might be better not to let them have the guns.
That the law is silly is probably underlined by the 15.5 limit, when most off-road buttons only up the speed to about 18 mph! Yes, a line has to be drawn somewhere, but it doesn't seem particularly useful to draw it there.
A
I've never been wholly convinced by the argument Flecc puts up, that of licensing etc, as it seems to me a bit like teaching people how to shoot guns, then giving them guns and saying "Whatever you do DON'T shoot people." Might be better not to let them have the guns.
That the law is silly is probably underlined by the 15.5 limit, when most off-road buttons only up the speed to about 18 mph! Yes, a line has to be drawn somewhere, but it doesn't seem particularly useful to draw it there.
A
While we're talking strictly legal, then note that "off-road" really means "private land" in the UK. Bridlepaths, BOATs, RUPPs, canal tow paths and so on are all subject to traffic laws. And of course Footpaths[1] are supposed to be off limits to bicycles and horses. So selling something like an illegal e-bike or a Segway as "off road only" is a bit awkward as most of us have no access to anywhere that is genuinely off road.
[1]Near me there's a bridlepath that turns into an unmade road that's used by cars to two houses. The people in the houses keep horses. And yet the unmade road only has footpath status and I've been stopped and harangued once by one of the house owners for using a bicycle on their road. I apologized profusely, made my excuses and left and have continued to ignore this ever since. It's always easier to ask for forgiveness than permission and as long as you're not taking the p**s, it's unlikely to be a problem.
[1]Near me there's a bridlepath that turns into an unmade road that's used by cars to two houses. The people in the houses keep horses. And yet the unmade road only has footpath status and I've been stopped and harangued once by one of the house owners for using a bicycle on their road. I apologized profusely, made my excuses and left and have continued to ignore this ever since. It's always easier to ask for forgiveness than permission and as long as you're not taking the p**s, it's unlikely to be a problem.
It is interesting though how ebikes are restricted to assistance up to 15.5mph, (I thought it was 15), when anyone can ride them or any bike much faster
I am more than happy with being assisted only up to 15mph and don't want anything faster. Sometimes when I feel energetic I will take my little Brompton up to 18-20mph on the flat though. The ability to easily increase initial momentum using assistance, actually makes it easy to then sustain 15mph + on the flat with the motor turned off.
Regards
Jerry
I am more than happy with being assisted only up to 15mph and don't want anything faster. Sometimes when I feel energetic I will take my little Brompton up to 18-20mph on the flat though. The ability to easily increase initial momentum using assistance, actually makes it easy to then sustain 15mph + on the flat with the motor turned off.
Regards
Jerry
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