Is your pedelec legal? From CTC's cycle magazine

[iaing]

In the new April/May issue there is an article with the above title. Much that is familiar, but:

"Last year a Richmond cyclist was commuting to work on a pedelec bought in good faith when he was hit by a bus that allegedly jumped a red light...... The rider is now being prosecuted for illegal use of an unregistered untaxed motorcyle (police found it had a 300W motor).... To add insult to injury the operators/insurers of the bus are trying to dodge responsibility for the cyclist's injuries on the grounds that the vehicle they hit was being driven illegally. Trading Standards, meanwhile, have done almost nothing about the supplier..."

Iain

 

[eddieo]

shame there is no indication of the bikes make......But a retailer can sell more of less anything, and its you the purchaser who is at fault if you use it on the road! It will be different if they have categorically advertised it as UK road legal I would think.....

 

[rog_london]

Hmmmm!

I wonder whether the fact that he was riding in Richmond could be relevant - no, of course not....

Rog.

 

[eddieo]

Hmmmm!

I wonder whether the fact that he was riding in Richmond could be relevant - no, of course not....

Rog.

Ha...ha ha...Do you think!

If it is the chap certainly has a case, as website makes no mention of law or restrictions of use, and probably this omission reason why there are a few owners on here.....

 

[NRG]

Well 300w is a give away Maybe a proconnect s !?

 

[indalo]

"Last year a Richmond cyclist was commuting to work on a pedelec bought in good faith when he was hit by a bus that allegedly jumped a red light.

That this happened last year may only have been three months ago but the fact that it has taken some time to bring about the prosecution suggests to me that someone has been looking very closely at all relevant legislation.

I hope somebody can keep us abreast of further developments as it's an interesting subject.

Indalo

 

[neptune]

" The Police found it had a 300 Watt motor". I would be particularly interested as to how the police reached that conclusion . Was it because it had a label on it saying "300 Watts"? I could wear a label saying "Mr Universe" but that would not mean that I am. Would not the police have to prove that the label had been attached by the manufacturer , and show some form of certification? Are we talking average power, or peak power, or the power at which the motor will catch fire? The power will of course be dependent on the battery voltage at the time , not to mention a lot of other variables.Did the police run tests , and was the measuring equipment certified, and if so by whom. I would say that it would be very difficult to prove anything. It is not as if samples of every model of ebike is submitted for type approval, and certified. a Police Constable is required to know the law. This does not necessarily include Ohms Law.

 

[Hero Eco]

Hi all;

This was stamped on the bike, which is how they know it is outside the law. Whilst from recent conversations at the DFT (today), 250W will be dubious for a prosecution, 300W certainly will as it doesn't relate to any law.

Thanks

 

[Kudoscycles]

Iaing....Do you know the outcome?....if anyone is concerned about a particular importer selling bikes which are not UK legal then report the importer/retailer to VOSA....VOSA through it's SVA scheme would be very interested in any retailer who is selling a motorcycle which has not been certified under the SVA...if you look on the VOSA website the reporting form is simple to complete,it would need some supporting evidence such as a brochure or download from a website of the intention to sell product which clearly is outside the scope of the EPAC approved vehicles. I have had some involvement with VOSA,they are not like trading standards,who always seem a bit wooly in their actions but VOSA once they open a file are very proactive,they are very fair to the retailer who reacts positively to a recall-in this case probably recalling all bikes to replace the motor power to legal 250 watts but they have teeth to act on any retailer who is not cooperative.
Who was the importer who was selling illegal bikes?
Dave
KudosCycles

 

[Cakey]

Surely they would just ask them to sign a disclaimer and say it's off road use only.
Not really sure why all the fuss . If we get knocked down and killed by a car , they get a 12 month ban.
If they have no insurance , tax, or license they get 4 weeks suspended and 20 hours community.
Oh and if I am not wearing a helmet it's my fault .
It's not illegal to import bikes with bigger than 250 watt motors .

 

[neptune]

@Hero Eco . It would be interesting to know if the label was on the bike itself, or on the motor. If on the bike, it would not mean much as the motor might have been changed. If I was interested in running an illegal bike, which I am not, and I bought a secondhand motor stamped 300 Watts, I would arrange for it to have a slight accident involving an angle grinder, and some number punches.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Cakey....no that won't work....it has to be private land only....off road use could encompass forestry commision land,national trust land,MOD land,good old Charles's Duchy of Cornwall...I used to be involved in planning motor rallying 'off public roads',it is surprising how difficult it is in the UK to find private land which does not involve public road access in some way...the retailer to be exempt from EPAC regs would need to specify on his website that a 300/350 watt bike is for 'private land use only' and ask the customer to sign a declaration on the sale invoice that he appreciated that the bike was for 'private land use only'-you would have to be very stupid to sign such a declaration and pass all responsibility over to yourself to use an illegal bike on the road. As the start of this posting has indicated even if you were largely in the right in the event of an accident using an illegal bike puts the largesse of the blaim over to the bike rider.
This accident and the recent one in Northern Ireland(with a legal bike)has surprised me how knowledgeable are the police about EPAC regs.
Dave
KudosCycles

 

[Cakey]

The same law applies to Australia which is 200 w limit.
Hence bike likes stealth have a 200 w switch to make it street legal .
Certain companies in the uk are importing these.

 

[indalo]

Is there perhaps an issue here about representation? I'd guess that anyone riding a non-compliant ebike must run the risk of prosecution but surely any provider selling non-compliant ebikes must also face a similar risk?

Obviously, any 1 Kw machine or indeed any bike powered by any motor outwith current legislation isn't an ebike at all. That being so, anyone selling such a machine and calling it an ebike is misrepresenting the truth as it is in fact something other than an electrically-assisted bicycle. Am I being over-simplistic?

It really matters little to me where the powers that be place the parameters governing ebikes and of course, the legislation as we know it is probably a moveable feast, at the whim of the most convincing interest groups at any given moment....(changes possibly imminent, I understand). What I do find disagreeable though is when people decide to simply ignore laws because it suits them. The reasons I have seen expressed in this forum for such criminal action, for that's what it is, are quite frankly, pathetic and enormously selfish. Why do it? Why not just buy a different type of vehicle? That's the bit I really can't understand.

Most recently, we had the terminally boring saga of Cwah and his incredibly specific requirements of an ebike. The reality is that the law on ebikes simply doesn't provide for the kind of machine Cwah would like. He, of course, goes illegal and is aided in his quest by grown-ups in this forum who should know better. I'm afraid I just can't get my head around all this bragging about illegal machines and the encouragement for others to break the law while I read other postings about people who feel the need to attach cameras to their person to provide evidence of the misdemeanours of those nasty people who drive motor vehicles. I'm sure some of them are the same people.

It's all about power, speed.....oh, and double standards, is it not?

Indalo

 

[mxer125]

250w 300w ??? WTF, It has two wheels and set of pedels.....

 

[iaing]

Iaing....Do you know the outcome?....if anyone is concerned about a particular importer selling bikes which are not UK legal then report the importer/retailer to VOSA....VOSA through it's SVA scheme would be very interested in any retailer who is selling a motorcycle which has not been certified under the SVA...if you look on the VOSA website the reporting form is simple to complete,it would need some supporting evidence such as a brochure or download from a website of the intention to sell product which clearly is outside the scope of the EPAC approved vehicles. I have had some involvement with VOSA,they are not like trading standards,who always seem a bit wooly in their actions but VOSA once they open a file are very proactive,they are very fair to the retailer who reacts positively to a recall-in this case probably recalling all bikes to replace the motor power to legal 250 watts but they have teeth to act on any retailer who is not cooperative.
Who was the importer who was selling illegal bikes?
Dave
KudosCycles

Hello Dave

Received the magazine this morning, so no idea what comes next.

"Whilst examining it (the bike) they discovered that the motor was rated 300W" That's all that was written as regards the police's discovery.

The Richmond rider bought his bike from "a local supplier."

Iain

 

[NRG]

....... its worth noting that the vast majority of so called legal 250w bikes produce far more power than that in reality...

 

[mxer125]

....... its worth noting that the vast majority of so called legal 250w bikes produce far more power than that in reality...

+1 on that one, My lady shopping Sukura standard pulls well over 520w with my meter inline, But it's ok tho because it has 200w stamped on it.....

 

[Hero Eco]

@Hero Eco . It would be interesting to know if the label was on the bike itself, or on the motor. If on the bike, it would not mean much as the motor might have been changed. If I was interested in running an illegal bike, which I am not, and I bought a secondhand motor stamped 300 Watts, I would arrange for it to have a slight accident involving an angle grinder, and some number punches.

Hi Neptune,
Hi didn't state whether it was on the motor or the bike. But my guess would be the bike
Thanks
Mark

 

[eddieo]

I mean for heavens sake the police are not stupid, a quick ride will tell them if further investigation necessary. They can look on the website which is damning enough with statements like "Extreme high performance: perfect for high speed" or "This sporty bike puts commuters in the fast lane." and "for extra powerful propulsion, allowing you to accelerate to up to 40 km/h, you'll be able to complete longer journeys quickly and easily."

They have 4 of these S class bikes on website with no mention of legal situation

its like the old one about nothing to worry about until something goes wrong? You have the extra drink, feel fine to drive home and car hits you up the back......Or in this case a bus