just about to join in

[mr mailbox]

hi to all ,i am half a century old quite fit and i am going to ditch the packed trains and cycle to work which is 11mile on the canal towpath with some hills when you get off the canal i have 2k to spend and have been looking for months at electric bikes, ( mine field i think).

Could any one give me a few names ,ideas ect on any bikes, i have been looking at the kalkhoff pro connect BS10 which seems a lot of hard earned cash to spend, when there are cheaper bikes out there to buy. any thoughts,ideas would be appreciated.
regards Nigel

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Plenty of good bikes out there. Is it 11 miles each way or in total?(i.e. 5.5 miles each way). Best advice is to try some bikes. I would try both crank drives and hub bikes as preference is very much personal choice. Crank drive are more efficient and best generally best in very hilly areas. However bikes with a hub motor can normally cope with most hills in the UK. In terms of crank drives anything with a Bosch is normally good e.g. KTM, AVE.

Good luck with the search
David

 

[GORDONAL]

Hi and welcome

A few thoughts

1 Have you read through the bike test section - its nowhere near a complete picture but it gives you a good flavour

2 Try other forums for further info - Endless Sphere as eg

3 A to B magazine/online info.

4 Most important of all find as many dealers in your vicinity and try as many bikes as possible

5 Look out for organised "test" events - read the info. on here or the manufacturers websites as to when they are

My list is by no means complete and others no doubt will chuck in other things

Happy hunting/e-biking

Alan

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You don't say where you are. If you can wait until April, the Kudos event in Redbridge would give the opportunity to try loads of bikes. Virtually any bike should be able to do what you want, so choose one that you like the look of.

If you want to spend a bit less, there's the Kudos 2013 range, for which we should have some reviews soon. Cheaper still are the New Woosh crank-drives with a full suspension version coming soon.
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/12993-kudos-2013-performance-ebike-details.html
Electric Bikes | Woosh e-bikes | electric bicycles sales & hire

 

[mr mailbox]

thanks for that david, oh and its 11 miles there and 11 miles back i can do it on my mountain bike in about 40 mins + but legs are tried afterwards, my knees are knackered all the work as a p+d for 36 yrs i think
cheers.. nigel i will keep looking

 

[SRS]

From what I see, kalkhoff range, do not restict themselves to the legal 15.5mph. Correct me if I am wrong anyone.

This may be a consideration if your journey time is important.

As I have found out, set at 15, 16mph takes it takes me longer to get to work than my non powered hybrid. This assumes fair weather. Having said that, it is easier on the body.

 

[flecc]

From what I see, kalkhoff range, do not restict themselves to the legal 15.5mph. Correct me if I am wrong anyone.

All of their EU/UK legal ones do restrict to 15.5 mph. 50cycles also sell their S class e-bikes which are only legal in Germany and Switzerland when registered, number plated and insured there. To ride them legally here you need all that and have a moped licence. Have a look at them on the website on this link and you'll see they have a mounting bracket for the rear number plate just below the rear of the carrier.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

All of their EU/UK legal ones do restrict to 15.5 mph. 50cycles also sell their S class e-bikes which are only legal in Germany and Switzerland when registered, number plated and insured there. To ride them legally here you need all that and have a moped licence. Have a look at them on the website on this link and you'll see they have a mounting bracket for the rear number plate just below the rear of the carrier.

If your driving licence is before February 2001 you do not need to undertake CBT
Get a licence - pass the CBT

 

[GaRRy]

From what I see, kalkhoff range, do not restict themselves to the legal 15.5mph. Correct me if I am wrong anyone.

This may be a consideration if your journey time is important.

As I have found out, set at 15, 16mph takes it takes me longer to get to work than my non powered hybrid. This assumes fair weather. Having said that, it is easier on the body.

Huhh ??. The legal requirement is that the electrical assistance must stop at 15.5 Mph there should be nothing to stop you pedelling any ebike faster then that if you are able.

Of course some bikes are to heavy / impossible to do this on due to motor drag but I am not aware of any ebike that actually stops you travelling faster than 15.5 mph if you are prepared to put in the effort.(Im sure Flecc knows of a few obscure ones)

 

[flecc]

I am not aware of any ebike that actually stops you travelling faster than 15.5 mph if you are prepared to put in the effort.(Im sure Flecc knows of a few obscure ones)

Only when the cable lock is still around the lamp post!

 

[hoppy]

Don't ignore the Tonaro range from Powerpedals in South Molton.Well proven crank drive with throttle.Many thousands sold all over the world.
Excellent back up.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Mr Mailbox-its an open invite foc to any of our roadshows coming up in April around the UK-Redbridge(London) is the big one,7th April,we should have over 100 bikes to test from 12 suppliers. But we have smaller events in Derbyshire,the Manifold Trail,13th April.....Hambleton Peninsula,Rutland,20th April...the Eden Project,Cornwall,20-24 April.
Please advise your location.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[SRS]

Huhh ??. The legal requirement is that the electrical assistance must stop at 15.5 Mph there should be nothing to stop you pedelling any ebike faster then that if you are able.

Of course some bikes are to heavy / impossible to do this on due to motor drag but I am not aware of any ebike that actually stops you travelling faster than 15.5 mph if you are prepared to put in the effort.(Im sure Flecc knows of a few obscure ones)

Gary, you are correct. You can pedal any speed you like over 15mph. Question is, why would you want to do this on a heavy e-bike?

I'd rather use the battery, after all that's why I bought it in the first place.

Do you not find it odd that we live in a world where, in some countries it is ok for new born babies to die of hunger but in Europe, we're worried about an e-bike doing 20mph.

As far as I am concerned, sort out the dead babies then, and only then will I even consider restricting my bike to 15.5mph.

Until then, I'll get to work as fast as I like, consideration to others and safety in mind, always.

 

[GaRRy]

Gary, you are correct. You can pedal any speed you like over 15mph. Question is, why would you want to do this on a heavy e-bike?

I'd rather use the battery, after all that's why I bought it in the first place.

Do you not find it odd that we live in a world where, in some countries it is ok for new born babies to die of hunger but in Europe, we're worried about an e-bike doing 20mph.

As far as I am concerned, sort out the dead babies then, and only then will I even consider restricting my bike to 15.5mph.

Until then, I'll get to work as fast as I like, consideration to others and safety in mind, always.

How about because it takes no more real effort than a normal bike. I frequently find myself once up to speed travelling faster than the motor will take me on my NEO and not because Im pushing to do so it just happens. Oh and im certain not fit weighing the wrong side of 110 kilos ,in my fifties with a dodgy knee and ankle. Sure it drops back down on the hills buts thats where the motor kicks in again and still allows me to keep up with all but the die hard lycras.

As for the rest does that mean I should also be able to travel at 150 mph on my Ducati ?

 

[SRS]

How about because it takes no more real effort than a normal bike. I frequently find myself once up to speed travelling faster than the motor will take me on my NEO and not because Im pushing to do so it just happens. Oh and im certain not fit weighing the wrong side of 110 kilos ,in my fifties with a dodgy knee and ankle. Sure it drops back down on the hills buts thats where the motor kicks in again and still allows me to keep up with all but the die hard lycras.

As for the rest does that mean I should also be able to travel at 150 mph on my Ducati ?

My point being, it does not matter if 20mph is achieved by leg power alone or electrical assistance. 20 mph is 20 mph. Even if pushed but the wind it is still 20 mph. As long as the speed is within normal leg powered parameters it's not even worth making it an issue.

To make an issue over, leg of electrical power makes no sense what so ever.

150 mph on a motorcycle designed for this sort of speed is fine on a clear, dry open and empty road.

I have taken my ST 1300, two up on numerous trips well over 135mph under the right conditions. We're both still here. That is what the thing is designed for, fast touring. Oh and by the way, we enjoyed it.

I might add that this was on the continent as it is deemed too dangerous to do this in the UK.

 

[103Alex1]

I agree SRS. The serious lycras round here cycle through town on the flats at about 25mph - they outran me on my Kalkhoff doing 20.5mph (which is about the tops it'll give with me, my 4kg chain and a load of other stuff on it before it isn't worth the extra effort for the power I'm able to input unassisted).

Only point anyone's made that I kind of saw the logic on this is that if the lycras hit something at speed they're doing it with a 7kg bike with a Camelbak on as the precious bike can't be loaded with much more than a McVities wafer and a carbon torque wrench lol. If I do it's about 24kg - 45kg of bike (allowing for carrying load) + me ... although I claim special consideration being only about 10stone (allowing for clothing !). Joking aside, not many cargo bikes steam along at 25-30mph under leg power alone.

But I do agree with what you're saying. It seems that if you can ride a featherweight bike at high speed in tight clothing then you get away with it but the law isn't going to help you do that on a bike with any sort of practical use other than being ridden for the sake of riding it.

 

[SRS]

Joking aside, not many cargo bikes steam along at 25-30mph under leg power alone.

Point taken on the kinetic energy. Better brakes would solve this issue to a certain extent.

If I were designing the e-bike concept on day one, I'd have thought about it a little more and reversed the concept.

It is generally fairly easy to cycle un assisted at 10-15mph. At 15mph ish wind resistance starts to take play.

To overcome this ever increasing resistance, electrical assistance could kick in at this point. It would then be a welcome boost against the wind and on the larger hills.

Makes sense to me. You would also have the added advantage of the motor cutting out at slow speeds and saving power. Power only coming into effect when actually needed and increasing mileage.

 

[flecc]

Power assistance is allowed on bicycles for those who need it, not as a general provision to increase performance. The legislation is therefore aimed at utility cyclists who tend to cycle at under 15 mph, more commonly at around 10 to 12 mph. Lycras who ride at over 20 mph are completely irrelevant, clearly they do not need assistance.

Some safety laws are needed since unlike the operators of other powered vehicles, e-bikers are not tested in any way for proficiency. These laws and the reasons for them are as follows:

E-bike weight restricted to 40 kilos. This is to limit the mass that can cause damage to others, especially important since there is no third party insurance cover in place.

Assist speed limited to 25 kph/15 mph. This emphasises the need over performance factor, but more importantly it's connected to the fact of no rider proficiency testing. Physical fitness, reaction times, eyesight and hearing are broadly connected, we can be reasonably confident that the fit lycra is overall fairly safe at over 15 mph in these respects. The utility riders who the e-bikes are intended for are often going to be elderly with those facilities often impaired in many ways. They can often be partially disabled with impairments affecting safety. In the absence of rider testing the safety of the public at large has to take precedence.

Connected with the level at which the assist speed limit is set is the effect that evolution has had on our abilities. A fit normal person can run at up to 18 mph, so evolution has developed our senses and reactions to cope best with speeds up to that. As mentioned though, those senses and reaction times deteriorate with age, so given the target group likely common age profile, the assist speed is set a bit lower. Originally in Britain it was set at 12 mph but this was later raised to 15 mph to give some parity with EU law while still being lower than the optimum for the fully fit.

Pedelec control. This is to emphasise that the e-bike remains a bicycle with the power applied by pedalling, not a low powered motor cycle. That is why the EU don't allow throttles at all assist speeds.

To summarise, with one exception the law on e-bikes is not daft or irrational, and those who feel it is simply haven't considered all the relevant factors.
.

 

[SRS]

Flecc

Annoyingly, what you have said makes total sense.

However if e-bikes are to appeal to all ages, then bikes with higher performance will be required. Not talking of 50mph. 20, maybe 25mph.

It is to the benefit of society in general if people can be moved away from cars and onto clean sustainable modes of transport.

By restricting performance, just in case some could not cope with a little more is counter productive.

I'd suggest we give people the option, if this entails some sort of proficiency test then so be it.
Any suggestion from anyone that these bikes are mostly for invalids or people who need assistance is wrong.

Some choose to arrive at work, non sweaty. Some choose, hopefully to get there faster and for others riding these things can just be a matter of interest in electrically powered vehicles.

Personally, I choose to ride electric because of a general interest and at the moment it is not the norm. I do not like to be classed as "normal"

 

[Kudoscycles]

Flecc

Annoyingly, what you have said makes total sense.

However if e-bikes are to appeal to all ages, then bikes with higher performance will be required. Not talking of 50mph. 20, maybe 25mph.

It is to the benefit of society in general if people can be moved away from cars and onto clean sustainable modes of transport.

By restricting performance, just in case some could not cope with a little more is counter productive.

I'd suggest we give people the option, if this entails some sort of proficiency test then so be it.
Any suggestion from anyone that these bikes are mostly for invalids or people who need assistance is wrong.

Some choose to arrive at work, non sweaty. Some choose, hopefully to get there faster and for others riding these things can just be a matter of interest in electrically powered vehicles.

Personally, I choose to ride electric because of a general interest and at the moment it is not the norm. I do not like to be classed as "normal"

Sorry,I don't get that more performance will make electric bikes appeal to all ages-if you look at the current situation in Holland and Germany,the biggest markets for ebikes outside of China-the ebikes in those countries are ridden by teenagers to grandparents to exactly the same performance levels as EN15194 is offering in the UK.
To be honest the UK has some unique requirements which is not required by anywhere else-we seem to be seeking cheap motorbikes rather than pedelec bicycles-hence the desire for throttles and power.
We seem to have a completely different attitude to city biking,whether it is ebike or sports bikes-sit in a pavement cafe in Holland and most riders are quite relaxed riders,the joy of cycling does not depend purely upon speed-in contrast the speed of bike riders around London these days is becoming a hazard for pedestrians. Why is everybody in such a hurry?
Dave
Kudoscycles