Kalkhoff Agattu Range: 9 Charges of 18Ah Battery

10mph

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 13, 2010
351
0
England
This is a report on the range achieved for the first 9 charges of the 18Ah battery on my 3 speed Kalkhoff Agattu over my first 10 weeks of ownership. To save you reading all the details below, I get 40 miles on hills with max assist, and 80 miles on flattish terrain around 10-12 mph.

Because I had been concerned about reliably getting 30 miles range when the battery was a year or two old, and also when used on cold but not freezing winter mornings, I arranged for the bike to be supplied with the new 18Ah 25.2v Li-ion battery. I understand this battery is made for Derby Cycles by BMZ in Germany. I had quite a long wait for the new battery to become available. Eventually at the beginning of April, when I could wait no more, Tim of 50Cycles arranged for an 18Ah battery which had come in on one of the more upmarket Kalkhoff bikes to be put on my bottom of the range 3-speed Agattu, replacing the standard 8Ah one.

I have recorded each of the 9 charges so far, noting the time the battery went on charge and the time at which each of the 5 LEDs on the battery stopped flashing and became continuously illuminated. I have a mains power meter measuring the input to the battery charger. This showed that for the last 40 minutes or so before the charger cuts off and the battery is fully charged, the mains power ramps down from around 70-71 watts to 29 watts. I understand that the purpose of this final period of reduced charge rate at the end of a charge cycle is to achieve the maximum possible charge without reduction of the life of the battery.

The charge ups are shown in the following diagram.
9-charges.jpg

The first charge from what I think must have been a deeply discharged state took just over 12 hours. Before charges no.3 and no.5 the bike was run until the low voltage cut-off operated. This means that in the preceding riding the total battery energy of 453.6 Wh had been used. (Note: the label on the battery says, "25.2V 453.6Wh," and this must have been calculated as follows 18 x 25.2 = 453.6 ).

I recorded the miles covered between each charge using a Garmin Etrex H. I also have also noted the assistance level setting and the type of terrain. Between charge nos 1 and 2, and between 8 and 9, I kept on maximum assist and rode rather hilly routes with gradients up to 5% in top gear and about 13% in bottom gear. The 84 miles before charge no.3 was all pretty flat typically 10-12 mph with occasional slopes up to about 2%. Most of 73 miles before charge no. 5 was similar with the exception of 10 miles on a sandy and hilly forest trail where I often had to switch to max assist, and sometimes had to push the bike when the bike sank into the sand.

Before charges nos. 2,4,6,7,8,9 the battery was not completely run down. One can judge roughly how far the battery had been discharged by working out the ratio of the charge up time to the 10.7 hours taken for charges no 3 and 5. For example charges no. 8 and 9 which took about 7.2 hours, are about 0.67 of the time for a full charge, so one can estimate roughly how far I could have ridden before reaching cut off by multiplying the actual distance by 1.5. Thus if I had continued to cut-off as I was riding before charge no. 8, I would have reached 54 x1.5 = 81 miles, and before charge no. 9, 27 x 1.5 = 40 miles.

So calculating the range to cut-off in the above manner, I get the following for my 8 periods of riding
43 miles - All in max assist. Repeated hills up to 13%
84 miles - All in min assist. Flattish gentle riding 10-12 mph.
73 miles - Mostly medium assist. Flattish but lots of stops and hard acceleration. Some fast ridng above power cutout
73 miles - About 10 miles on sandy , hilly trails with some use of max. Rest in min assist. Flattish gentle riding 10-12 mph.
72 miles - All in min assist. Flattish gentle riding 10-12 mph.
76 miles - All in min assist. Flattish gentle riding 10-12 mph.
80 miles - All in min assist. Flattish gentle riding 10-12 mph.
40 miles - All in max assist. Hills 5 to 13%, mostly very close to 14 mph, except for the hills steeper than 5%.

In summary, I do seem to get consistently around 80 miles when riding on flattish terrain at 10-12 mph and minimum assist. In maximum assist with steep hills and also sustained riding at 14 mph which is the point where the motor controller starts reducing power, I consistently get very slightly over 40 miles.

From these ranges we can calculate energy per mile from the battery:
80 miles for min assist converts to 5.6 Wh/mile, and
40 miles for max assist converts to 11.3 Wh/mile.

These are probably quite low figures for a "frail, elderly" 92 kg rider, but it is obviously an efficient bike, and I have been getting fitter over the 2 month period, since I am less tired now, even after last set of rides at around 14 mph. I note that 14 mph @11.3W/mile is an average power from the battery of 158 watts. Taking an overall efficiency of say 75%, that is 118 watts supplied to the tyre from the motor. Since I was in max assist there would have been an additional 59 watts from me. Making a total of 177 watts.

According to this Bicycle Speed (Velocity) And Power Calculator, I would expect that 177 watts into the tyre would drive me at 15 mph on a 0% gradient with no wind, or on a 1% gradient, often encountered even in flattish terrain round here, it would drive me at 12.5 mph. So the numbers do roughly make sense, but I wish we had access to a well calibrated dynamometer, as well as something to accurately measure my own power output. Then we could really evaluate and compare bikes' ranges under controlled conditions.

It will be interesting to take similar data in a year or two's time. This battery is supposed to have a life of 1100 charging cycles. At a rate of one charge per week that will take 21 years, however I am expecting the battery chemistry to go off long before then, and even if it does not, I doubt that I will be able to keep up such riding into my 90s!
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,872
30,417
Many thanks for the tests and meticulously prepared information 10 mph. It looks as though the "average" user with their gearing not changed and not trying for economy can reliably expect around 50 miles. That pro-rata roughly matches the expectation with the old standard 10 Ah battery of about 30 miles.
 

indalo

Banned
Sep 13, 2009
1,380
1
Herts & Spain
Hi 10mph.

I'm delighted to hear of the mileage you are able to achieve on your Panasonic-powered bike. The most interesting part for me is the fact that your bike operates on a 26v system, (give or take) rather than the 36v, 48v and even 72v systems we read of in some postings. I was beginning to think that all bikes were headed towards higher voltage systems so perhaps those who advocate those systems aren't so much concerned with economy as they are with sheer brute force driving through a hub motor.

Although others with experience of the 18Ah battery may have previously commented with regard to mileage, I can't remember reading any reviews so I don't know how your fairly forensic appraisal compares with the user experience of others. One day I may wish to replace my Panasonic-powered bike for a more up-to-date yet traditionally-styled model and the Agattu would fit the bill nicely, especially now that it can compete with the best of the rest for mileage. If it's as comfortable to ride as my Gazelle, I'd be happy.

Regards,
Indalo
 

Scottyf

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 2, 2011
1,403
-1
How big is the 18ah battery. I just is not that much bigger than most 36v 10ah batteries considering the 18ah battery is about 30% increase in watt's.

Glad to see the range is large though. Hope itt keeps you gonig for those 1100 cycles!

At the moment with my battery I use up anywhere from 2.5ah to 3.0ah one way on my battery but charge at work and home. I'm hoping the frequent charges keep it well maintained.
Even If I drop down to 50% my current range becasue I can charge each end I should be ok for quite a while yet.

Good to read your analysis though
 

10mph

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 13, 2010
351
0
England
How big is the 18ah battery.
I have just measured the plastic case and the answer is 2.3 litres. But re-reading your post I think your question was more a rhetorical one about the capacity!

I have not seen much posted on this forum about the new 18Ah. Some have only recently been delivered to forum members ordering them as replacements. those have had them on new bikes will have had them longer.

There are some threads on pedelecforum.de/forum but hard to understand with the google translator and I could not find much useful info.
 

10mph

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 13, 2010
351
0
England
The most interesting part for me is the fact that your bike operates on a 26v system, (give or take) rather than the 36v, 48v and even 72v systems we read of in some postings. I was beginning to think that all bikes were headed towards higher voltage systems so perhaps those who advocate those systems aren't so much concerned with economy as they are with sheer brute force driving through a hub motor.
I am frail and elderly and I don't need a brute force, illegal bike, so maybe 25V is fine for me, since I assume the wiring can be made thick enough that power wasted in the resistance of the wiring connections is very small. In any case with a crank motor and the battery behind the seat post, the cable run is very short from the battery to the motor. Flecc and others say the Panasonic drive system is efficient and I believe them.

I should think that with a 72 volt system one might have to rely on a tough wiring insulation to avoid nasty - even lethal - electric shocks in wet conditions, if the insulation were to be damaged.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,872
30,417
I should think that with a 72 volt system one might have to rely on a tough wiring insulation to avoid nasty - even lethal - electric shocks in wet conditions, if the insulation were to be damaged.
I believe there is a legislated 48 volt limit for low voltage systems like electric bikes. Golf buggys and light electric carts/trucks all appear to conform with 48 volt systems.
 

banbury frank

Banned
Jan 13, 2011
1,565
5
Hi Fleec

It is an EU low voltage directive under 50 volts no need for a lot off testing in a lab to comply with the CE mark
this applies to any electrical appliance

Been there and done it in my previous job approving telephone systems

witch came outside the directive because the ringing voltage on a telephone line is 80 volts AC

DC is very dangerous it draws you in contracting your mussels ( is that a shell fish ) AC trows you across the room

Frank
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,872
30,417
Thanks Frank, I knew I'd read it somewhere. Looking online there seems to be a similar conformity in the USA to 48 volts for these systems, so they may have similar legislation.
 

WALKERMAN

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2008
269
0
Can all owners of the new 18amp Batteries please charge them for 24 hours run it down completely and repeat this procedure 3 times. This will condition the battery for the rest of its life.

This advice is new to me.

A bit late now the bike is 4 months old.

I ran it down only once after the first full charge.
 

NRG

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 6, 2009
2,592
10
Shouldn't be necessary to perform it 3 times, do it once to reset the 'fuel gauge' and you should be on your way. Cell balancing is done on each charge anyhow so further so called 'conditioning' cycles are unnecessary...
 

Kenny

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 13, 2007
383
111
West of Scotland
When I bought my bike two years ago the advice was to fully charge/discharge 3 times but I've noticed recently the general opinion is once or twice is enough.

Tim,
When you say "charge for 24 hours" is this really necessary? Surely once all the lights are out the charging process is finished. (less than 8.5 hours for my second charge)

Excellent write up 10mph. I'll report my range findings once I've racked up a few more miles.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,872
30,417
As Scott says, conditioning can be done at any time, and this applies to all lithium batteries. No damage is done if one isn't conditioned immediately.
 

Kenny

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 13, 2007
383
111
West of Scotland
Just completed my 3rd conditioning cycle. The last two I covered 42 and 40 miles respectively. The latest ride of 40miles was slightly less because I did the distance in two parts with an 8 hour break (The 42 mile distance was done none stop so I was tiring towards the end).
The routes were very similar with a good mixture of challenging hills, fast flat sections and some pretty strong headwinds. All done on maximum assist of x1.5.

I'm 51 and 11st 10lbs and am probably a bit fitter than average though the stone I've put on since giving up smoking 2 1/2 years ago seems to have went to my waist and not my thighs. :(

My maximum range from my 10ah battery on full power was 23 miles so I'm quite pleased with my new battery. My normal cycling rarely involves constantly use of maximum assist and expect I will easily double these distances by cycling slower in my usual style and using the power more sparingly.

Would be interested to hear how others are finding the new battery.
 
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Blew it

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2008
1,472
97
Swindon, Wiltshire
These reports are exactly what I want from the BMZ battery. For my own purposes, I'm looking for fifty miles per charge at a constant 1:1 assist, with a maximum climb of 13%, rider weight 72 Kgs ( down from 83 Kgs in January ).

Unfortunately, my example of this battery is simply not performing as expected, the first handlebar led extinguishing at nine miles ( twelve miles on Panasonic 10 ah battery ). I have now followed both charging procedures, but the five battery level led's remain on constantly. When the latest charging instructions were posted, I ran the battery to low voltage shutdown. On recharging, when all five led's went continous, I left the battery on charge for a further 27 hours, but the five led's would not extinguish.

The battery is now sitting in the dining room with all five led's still on, as they have been for the last three days. In my opinion, this battery is faulty and will be returned to 50 cycles when I contact them for a returns reference number.

Strangely, the battery was delivered to me completely flat, which suggests it was not tested prior to dispatch. Had it been done so, I would not now be faced with purchasing suitable packaging materials to ensure it's safe return to Loughborough, not forgetting the actual postage costs. I'm assuming I will be reimbursed with regard to these costs.

Fingers crossed I can get hold of a fully functioning example of this battery.

Regards
Bob
 

tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
5,249
3,197
Strangely, the battery was delivered to me completely flat, which suggests it was not tested prior to despatch.
From what I have read, this seems to be the normal situation. These batteries arrive completely devoid of any charge.

It does sound as though you have a faulty one though. The LED sequence sounds very strange.
 

Kenny

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 13, 2007
383
111
West of Scotland
Sorry to hear about your battery woes Bob. Hope you get a quick replacement.

Don't want to labour a point, but I wouldn't be surprised if it had taken a bad knock during transit due to the inadequate packaging.

My battery arrived completely flat so I guess this is normal.

I was concerned when the first handlebar light went out at around 7 miles on all three runs but the second light didn't go out til around 20 miles with the slow flashing of the final light starting around 32 miles.

As stated before the bike made a satisfactory 40 miles total, all in high (x 1.5) power, although you can feel reduced assist the last couple of miles as the battery empties.

Strange how the "fuel" gauge seems less linear with this battery.

I would also stress that these conditioning runs were seriously fast, as you soon realise when you flee past every unassisted cyclist you come across. On a recent run with my friend on his lightweight unpowered hybrid, we did 46 miles and I still had a 2 lights left on my 10ah battery. I prefer to take in the scenery and more often than not cycle in low assist (x 0.5) which more than makes up for the extra weight of my bike against my friends 10kg hybrid.
 

carpetbagger

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 20, 2007
744
18
blackburn
just received my replacement battery (1st damaged in transit) it definietly wasn't dead. Its been on charge for 1hr 30mins and shows 2 lights on with 3rd flashing. Only 22 hrs 30 to go.......................
 

carpetbagger

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 20, 2007
744
18
blackburn
you should have just rung up and told them about the problem. Somebody at the workshop said a courier would collect my damaged one today. The guy who came said he was delivering only but not collecting so you shouldn't incur any costs.Probably be the same guy who comes later with the pick up details....crazy set up or what ....
 
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