Thanks for the advice carpetbagger, this will save me going to the Post Office.
Kalkhoff Agattu Range: 9 Charges of 18Ah Battery
- Thread starter 10mph
- Start date
Well they have just been to collect damaged battery....same guy !!! Don't know why it couldn't have been done in one go..New battery now has 4 solid lights
After 8.5 hours all lights have gone off. Seems strange to leave it 24 hours as what else will it do ??
I will anyway as thats 50Cycles advice....and it looks like its going to rain !
I will anyway as thats 50Cycles advice....and it looks like its going to rain !
Queried this myself in the previous page.
Incidentally my last charge took just over 10.5 hours till the lights went out which is consistent with the 5.5 hours charge time of the 10ah battery.
The very high density cell contents during initial conditioning will be settling with the received charge still distributing after cutoff to achieve equalisation throughout the cell. Once that's completed the battery could then register space for further charge so the charging could restart at any time during the 24 hours to top up that space and it's BMS resume equalisation between cells.
I'm sure this results from packing 18 Ah capacity into such a small space, meaning both high cell content density and higher input resistance, each cell's internal distribution of charge not keeping pace with the overall rise in input resistance signalling end of charge.
Once fully conditioned this effect should not be felt again.
ok,thanks for that. Just re checked and charger is stone cold. i thought perhaps it may have been the cells have to balance over time so discharging them early would prevent that. Thanks for the explanation.
20 Point Summary of Battery Advice from the new Kalkhoff User Manual
Yesterday I received a newsletter email from 50cycles with a link to the 2011 Kalkhoff Pedelec user manual in English. It is a 16MB pdf download with 148 pages.
A number of points have been made about battery usage have been made in this thread. I thought it might be useful to add here my summary of what the new 2011 version of the Kalkhoff user manual says. It actually summarises very well what I have already read and learnt about Li-ion batteries from numerous discussions scattered around this forum and elsewhere. I have added to the summary a few of my own comments in brackets.
Here is my summary of the principal points starting from section III 18 (page 116 of 148) about the management of the battery.
Yesterday I received a newsletter email from 50cycles with a link to the 2011 Kalkhoff Pedelec user manual in English. It is a 16MB pdf download with 148 pages.
A number of points have been made about battery usage have been made in this thread. I thought it might be useful to add here my summary of what the new 2011 version of the Kalkhoff user manual says. It actually summarises very well what I have already read and learnt about Li-ion batteries from numerous discussions scattered around this forum and elsewhere. I have added to the summary a few of my own comments in brackets.
Here is my summary of the principal points starting from section III 18 (page 116 of 148) about the management of the battery.
- The Li-ion battery uses Lithium-cobalt.
- Recharge battery after every trip.
- Battery can't be damaged by an external short circuit.
- Can be left on charger since charger will not overcharge.
- If not in use recharge at least every 6 months, and ideally store at 10C at three quarters of full charge.
- Fully charge battery before first use, or if not used for sometime.
- Run battery down to empty before first 3 charging cycles.
- Running battery to empty for every charging cycle would reduce life so partially recharge the battery whenever possible.
- Battery is delivered in "sleep mode" which minimises self discharge. It is also delivered not fully charged.
- To "wake up", place battery on charger for one minute (note my battery appeared to take 15 minutes to "wake up" and for the first battery LED to start flashing when I first put it on charge - maybe it was delivered in an extremely low state of charge.)
- Ideal charge temperature is between 10C and 30C.
- Store in house or warm garage when outside temp is very low and then fit to bike just before venturing out into the cold.
- When transporting bike by car take battery out of its holder. (That is not something I have been doing - I wonder if I need to do this, since I don't drive my car on bumpy roads.)
- Most owners will already be familiar with the battery charge indicator on the battery - a brief press gives: 5 LEDs 80-100%, 4 LEDs 60-80%, 3 LEDs 40-60%, 2 LEDs 20-40%, 1 LED 10-20%, 1 LED flashes <10%, no display empty.
- Holding the battery button down gives a similar scale for the present battery max capacity. So if you reach the 3 LED indication, you are at 40-60% of the as-new capacity, and it is time to make a warranty claim, assuming you have done less than 1100 full charging cycles and you are still within the warranty life which is 2 years.
- You can still use the battery when capacity is reduced in order to extend life further although maximum range will be reduced.
- You will get longer life if you use a lower gear when on maximum assist and pedal pressure gets high. (This reduces peak current from the battery - I confess I enjoy rapid acceleration from stops at traffic lights - but as with all things, both mechanical and biological, more gentle acceleration will extend life.)
- If all battery LEDs flash consecutively, or if several flash at same time, the battery is damaged.
- Do not use other than the charger provided or a charger approved by Derby Cycle.
- Remove battery from bike before your clean the bike (with water).
i have now done 3 conditioning charges with the following results
charge 1.....1st light-16 miles.2nd-22. 3rd-19. flash-10 total=67 miles
charge 2.....1st light- 13 miles. 2nd-20. 3rd-21. flash-11 total 65 miles
charge 3.....1st light- 14 miles. 2nd-21. 3rd-16.5. flash-16 total 67.5 miles
This was riding on 1:1 on mixed terrain with strong headwinds. Looks like at a pinch i may be able to squeeze a 100 mile ride if i use mixed low and medium power as i would normally do.
charge 1.....1st light-16 miles.2nd-22. 3rd-19. flash-10 total=67 miles
charge 2.....1st light- 13 miles. 2nd-20. 3rd-21. flash-11 total 65 miles
charge 3.....1st light- 14 miles. 2nd-21. 3rd-16.5. flash-16 total 67.5 miles
This was riding on 1:1 on mixed terrain with strong headwinds. Looks like at a pinch i may be able to squeeze a 100 mile ride if i use mixed low and medium power as i would normally do.
That is impressive mileage you are getting from this new battery. I don't think there is much else out there that can approach 100 miles range with such a neat and compact battery / motor arrangement.
The bosch sytem on my new bike seems to have very reliable handlebar information on the computer. It gives you the amount of Km you have left in all the power modes, you simply switch through them and range drops accordingly. ECO mode shows over 100km through to Speed at 35km
also assistance seems to feel as strong all the way along until battery eventually cuts out...benefit of 36V system perhaps? hilll climbing with 1km left, it pulls as strongly as a full battery. then when it dies you know immediataly how much assistance you have just lost!
very pleased so far with the Bosch system, super smooth and a very nice light bike.....
away this week on holidays and bikes will be seriously ridden for a month, so should have a good idea when we return...
also assistance seems to feel as strong all the way along until battery eventually cuts out...benefit of 36V system perhaps? hilll climbing with 1km left, it pulls as strongly as a full battery. then when it dies you know immediataly how much assistance you have just lost!
very pleased so far with the Bosch system, super smooth and a very nice light bike.....
away this week on holidays and bikes will be seriously ridden for a month, so should have a good idea when we return...
Sorry but I will post where I think applicable? and you should be minding your own business and not telling me what to do...... just pointing out that there is now an alternative crank drive sytem that is all.
The future is already here but not that many seem aware of it
By the way....still waitng for the call re Haibike test ride? I waited so long I was forced to source a bike elsewhere
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Easy tiger...! Just go and enjoy your holiday. I look forward to a report on how both bikes fare, ridden daily for a couple of weeks or so.
Regards,
Indalo
lol Not as if I was of topic was it, now really.......some one asked me for an update on DaaHub but to be honest have only been using the crank drive purely to get used to it. And with all the preparation on new camper and running around, I have not the time to write a reasonable review or either bike to be honest...so this seemed an ideal opportunity for a little update and food for thought? Ah well you cant please all the peoples all the time.
Yes a month in Slovenia/Croatia/Italy cant wait.
Well like I said earlier, hardly "of topic" discussing range and charging attributes of different crank drive systems.. and all in keeping with the ebb and flow that tends to happen within a thread? Sorry if it brought out the forum policeman in you...did you work for Murdoch I wonder
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