Latest news on Giant e-bikes

[flecc]

Ginat have now discontinued the Twist II model using NiMh batteries, not surprising since good high discharge NiMh cells are becoming increasingly impossible to source, the high discharge market having switched almost entirely to lithium.

Much more important is that Giant have at long last included a freewheel in their hub motor, presumably doing away with the regeneration feature which never worked well anyway. This change will make the Twist Freedom (formerly the Twist 1) model much easier to pedal without power now and much faster on the overrun downhill, raising average speeds in hilly and rolling terrain.

Although the Giant hub motor isn't a fast performer, the change will be particularly important on the Giant Twist Express RS2 sport version, leaving it rather more able to live up to it's role.

P.S. Just received the new A to B in online form and they also announce the freewheeled motor on page 31.
.

 

[eddieo]

Cheers Flecc!

Thats a nice looking bike! and it's £895.......

no details on battery/power or weight though

how would this compare against a kalkhof Aguitta I wonder?

 

[flecc]

Cheers Flecc!

Thats a nice looking bike! and it's £895.......

no details on battery/power or weight though

how would this compare against a kalkhof Aguitta I wonder?

The battery is their existing 26 volt 10 Ah lithium polymer one, very much like the Kalhoff's battery. One reason this model is cheaper is the use of one battery, their Freedom model has twin batteries and higher spec components but costs £1500.

Performance would be comparable with the Agattu much of the time, but being a wheel-hub motor not driving through the gears it won't be as good on very steep hills. These Giant models are also non-throttle pedelecs like the Kalkhoffs.

A to B have tried it and this is David's unpublished view: "we tried the new Twist and it freewheels, so it's much better. Still not a Kalkhoff or Lafree though!"

Like Powabyke, one advantage with Giant is a nationwide chain of dealers, some being appointed e-bike locations, and this very often gives one a chance to try a bike before buying.
.

 

[mahaca1]

How much this bike weighs?, I suppose the lighter model will be "twist express r2 w" = no susspension fork and only one battery.
I heard that Giant also have changed the pedal axle, moving outside the cadence sensor (before was inside the axle). You can pedal better without fluffy sensations.
I think the price is great.

 

[eddieo]

I called the chap on Flecc's link and they know nothing regards power/capacity or weight....all they know is which have 1 or 2 battery's lol...I said I can see that by the price and info on your site!

 

[flecc]

Capacity as reported, 10 Ah on 26 volts, peak power circa 400 watts.

As for the weight, the Freedom step through model has a heavy frame at 24.9 kilos without batteries, so this is probably more like 22 kilos net, plus the single 2.6 kilo battery adding up around to 24 to 25 kilos.
.

 

[Sime]

Hello all,

The Giant Twist Express RS2 has recently reached the shops over here in the Netherlands a couple weeks ago. Has anyone tried it out and can give an opinion?

I'm new to e-biking and am seriously thinking of buying my first. The Express looks like the most promising (and it is at my preferred bike dealer). There is not much information about the Express except what is up on the Giant website ( Giant Bicycles / Bikes / ).

From what I've read here Giant have a rather hit and miss record with e-bikes, but mostly miss. The current 2009 range of Giant Twist bikes has received some positive reviews in the Dutch media. The newspaper De Telegraaf recommended the Union Switch (~1800 euro) and the Giant Twist Comfort CS (~2000 euro) as being good value for money. The Consumentenbond (consumer association?) did a test and recommended the Giant Twist Comfort Lite as their best buy. None of the tests had an Express available BTW.

The batteries are lithium and the motor can freewheel. My local dealer says that he has sold 3 of them in the last couple weeks. Has Giant produced a solid range of e-bikes?

cheers, Simon

 

[flecc]

They are certainly better that the previous hub motor Twist models Simon, but not particularly special other than being good quality. Much depends on the price where you are, the prices in the UK due to the current exchange rates being too high for what they are.

A to B magazine have just reviewed the Express RS1 model which arrived with them at £995 and by the time they sent it back after the review it had become £1300!!!!

They reviewed it in parallel with the new front hub motor version of the Kalkhoff Agattu and firmly came down on the side of the Giant as the better bike on a value for money basis since the Kalkhoff was even dearer, otherwise judging them fairly equal.

The review was in issue 70, March 2009. A to B magazine
.

 

[Sime]

Thanks for the info and links flecc. I got my hands on, and read the A to B article.

I'm looking for an ebike to put an end to headwinds on a my daily 20 km roundtrip and relatively flat commute. There is a reason why the Dutch build so many windmills(!). I'm 33 years young and interested in something aimed at basically going fast and not stopping me going beyond 25 km/h under my own power. The sporty slant of the Express appeals to me. From what I understand this rules out any crank driven ebike (eg Panasonic systems) since their legal top speed is done by limiting how high the highest gear is. This rules out A to B's favourite, the Agattu. So, more hybrid/commuter and less city bike is what I'm after. Are there many other options?

Just another general comment about ebikes. I'm quite (pleasantly) surprised at how varied the different needs and scenarios which people here have for their ebikes. Most of the ebike market until now have been aimed at older people who want to get around town with some help. How many people here are fairly young and want something fun and fast which takes away most of the cons of cycling? (wind and hills)

cheers, Simon

 

[flecc]

The legal issue is a problem for many of us Simon, even in my seventies I enjoy speed as much as ever!

However, the Panasonic system bikes are in fact more flexible for your needs than hub motor bikes like the Giant, though the legality is affected. The hub motor bike is stuck with it's limit, and even if any derestriction is possible you still only gain the odd couple of mph. By contrast, just changing the rear hub sprocket for a smaller one on the Panasonic bikes gears them up and increases the speed proportionally.

The limit to that process is the steepness of the hills, not something that will trouble you, though ultimately those notorious headwinds provide another limit according to the power available. For example, on a Kalkhoff Agattu, changing the 22 tooth rear sprocket for the smallest 16 tooth means the power phasedown starts at 13 mph instead of 9.4 mph and the power assistance cut-off isn't until over 20mph. Couple those with the use of the high power mode and you'll have much faster journeys, though the range could drop considerably to as low as about 20 miles in the worst circumstances. The Kalkhoff Pro Connect will be a touch faster with that same change and is more in the sporty mould that you like.

Remember that the Panasonic assist is only full up to a pedal cadence (RPM) of 40 and all assistance stops at a cadence of 65, so by pedalling a bit more like a sport cyclist from 65 to 90 cadence you don't get assistance anyway.

Alternatively, the high speed Panasonic "S" models such as the Biketech Flyer and Kalkhoff Pro Connect assist to 27 mph, but of course are very illegal where you are, only permitted in Germany and Switzerland.

Perhaps the best legal option of all for you is the Cytronex which is sold from Winchester here. Basically a Trek standard bike with the Tongxin nano front hub motor and a small battery in a water bottle form giving up to 20 miles range, it weighs only 17 kilos and rides like a normal sport bike. It assists to 15 mph so could face a headwind at near that but allow you to cycle faster much easier than most e-bikes.

Cytronex
.

 

[Sime]

Thanks again for the detailed answer. I'm not too interested in having a bike that I can run with assistance beyond the legal limit. I was more concerned with finding something which would act like a normal nonpowered bike once the threshold has been pasted (freewheel, high gears etc).

The Cytronex certainly looks like an impressive piece of kit. A cross between the Batmobile and the F-117 Stealth Fighter. That really is "cheating". Although I would have to make it practical, thus bringing the weight up etc. Speaking of practical, the lack of local dealers for these good bikes make things difficult if you want to try one out. It is even more tricky since I would want to take advantage of a Dutch Cycle2work style scheme (fietsplan) to buy it.

Tomorrow is meant to be good weather. I'll take some time to do a survey of the shops. We've got almost as many bike shops as supermarkets over here, although they are mainly dominated by Giant, Gazelle, Sparta, Multicycle and Batavus.

 

[flecc]

Yes, it is difficult getting to try enough e-bikes. Cytronex positively encourage people to come for trial rides on their bike, so you could treat yourself to a Eurostar trip and then on to Winchester. Make a nice break.

They were speaking of a variant with mudguards, carrier etc, but I don't know if it's available yet.
.

 

[Sime]

I just test drove the Express. It's an awful lot lighter than what I've been pushing around town and to work for the last 4-5 years I can say that much. It's a 7 speed and the gears go plenty high enough for me to take it way past 25km/h when I'm feeling energetic. (Not having any big hills means that I don't need lots of gears.) It is also the only sport style ebike that is generally available and dealer supported where I am. It also looks like it matches quite well what I want it to do and over what kind of terrain, and for the right price. Perhaps in a years time the market situation will be different and there will be more choice, but I don't feel like waiting that long and right now it looks like I'm going to buy it...

 

[flecc]

Sounds good Simon, and as it suits I don't blame you for not waiting. Given the recession there could be even less choice in a year's time, so you might as well get the enjoyment now.
.

 

[Sime]

I've got it in my hot little hands now. I'll post a review in a few weeks once I've done some Ks on it.