Lets Discuss an Ebike friendly sticker campaign........

[muckymits]

You need to make it worthwhile for a business to take it up, I am willing to do it for any one staying at my BnB, I just need power in to the bike storage. What I dont really want to see is something like the car charging scheme where bikes can charge but its going to cost £40 per month. Can see why NCP and Tesco are interested in it.

I can see this working in towns and cities but in countryside not so sure, if you went to a pub for lunch you would be there 1 hour or so, not much time to get any useful charge in to the battery. It needs to be aimed at the right businesses.

 

[morphix]

You need to make it worthwhile for a business to take it up, I am willing to do it for any one staying at my BnB, I just need power in to the bike storage. What I dont really want to see is something like the car charging scheme where bikes can charge but its going to cost £40 per month. Can see why NCP and Tesco are interested in it.

I can see this working in towns and cities but in countryside not so sure, if you went to a pub for lunch you would be there 1 hour or so, not much time to get any useful charge in to the battery. It needs to be aimed at the right businesses.

Hi muckymits (love the name btw ) you make some interesting points. One thing we never considered is the cost to businesses.. we are assuming facilities would be available to charge without any outlay for businesses.. in theory, all you need is a spare mains socket if people present their battery and charger..but where would bikes go? Storage of bikes should be a separate issue?

I was interested to see your view as a BnB owner that you think town and city businesses would be a better proposition.. in the countryside you tend to get more family-run businesses though and these would be more inclined to accommodate individual customers needs and less bothered about safety/liability issues? Maybe I'm being naive a bit here.

I think the best approach for charging is to have lots of points you can charge at so you don't need to stay in one place long and you would want to keep topping up your battery when the opportunity presents itself, so you're not flat and stuck in one place for hours. Obviously if you're in a BnB/pub or somewhere you can leave your bike safely and go shopping or whatever, it might not be a problem.. saying that, how long is the average time a battery takes to charge from flat? Mine takes only 2 hours for 10Ah. If you had one taking 4 hours that would be a problem of course.

 

[Scottyf]

I like the green Logo it works well.
I like the idea of certain stores / shops / businesses promoting the friendly "You Can Charge Here".

I don't like the idea of paying for the electric though when it costs 10p to charge a flat battery. Maybe a small donation to a charity would surfice.

I live round the city center and know alot of places support the free wifi and other modern techs that people can no longer live without it seems.

I'm not sure the idea of leaving a battery somewhere charging would work. It almosts need proper charge points that are secure and seems to be out the realm of a few people on the net.

I think walking with getting business on board with the idea of charging facilities in common place would be a good start. After all its similar to charging a laptop.

If you give me some flyers I'm happy to tootle round Birmingham dishing them out.
I'm sure some independant cycle shops will be well on board. Evans may take a little longer!

 

[muckymits]

Scotty you need to look at it from the business side, are you going to be my customer? if so you can have this free.

 

[morphix]

I like the green Logo it works well.
I'm not sure the idea of leaving a battery somewhere charging would work. It almosts need proper charge points that are secure and seems to be out the realm of a few people on the net.

Is that because of risk of battery going missing, or from a safety point of view you think? Maybe both? When you say proper charge points.. do you mean like some locker type setup?

I think walking with getting business on board with the idea of charging facilities in common place would be a good start. After all its similar to charging a laptop.

What do you mean by common place?

 

[funkylyn]

I'm sure that if the Brit Stops scheme can manage to persuade businesses to provide free overnight accommodation, sometimes with free electric hook up all night, in return for the campers at least looking at what they are selling, or buying a coffee, wine etc, then surely it shouldnt be too difficult to persuade people to allow free bike battery charging.......
I think it would be especially important to rural cyclists......most urban cyclists are usually commuting to work or within a few miles of home and therefore maybe not so desperate for charging facilities ?
Good idea to sound local businesses out first, i will do that around here.....we only need a socket, the batteries and chargers arent exactly huge.....but obviously this would not include bike minding.....

Lynda

 

[morphix]

Scotty you need to look at it from the business side, are you going to be my customer? if so you can have this free.

That's a good point. Businesses often don't like doing something for nothing, even if it is a good community initiative. Maybe some don't want extra people coming through their doors and taking up their time who don't contribute to the bottom line. I think this scheme though would benefit a lot of businesses, because people charging would be more inclined to do business with them.. whether it be buying a few drinks at a pub, using an internet cafe, getting bike serviced etc. Thinking about it like that, it's almost like free advertising/market for the small cost of the electricity and the time, they will get a sale and/or recommendations.

 

[morphix]

I'm sure that if the Brit Stops scheme can manage to persuade businesses to provide free overnight accommodation, sometimes with free electric hook up all night, in return for the campers at least looking at what they are selling, or buying a coffee, wine etc, then surely it shouldnt be too difficult to persuade people to allow free bike battery charging.......
I think it would be especially important to rural cyclists......most urban cyclists are usually commuting to work or within a few miles of home and therefore maybe not so desperate for charging facilities ?
Good idea to sound local businesses out first, i will do that around here.....we only need a socket, the batteries and chargers arent exactly huge.....but obviously this would not include bike minding.....

Lynda

Good points Lynda. I think we shouldn't try to over complicate the concept. I think it could benefit rural areas a lot by encouraging tourism or people to venture further out of the towns on their bikes.

I agree we need to make this clear to businesses they're not gonna be minding bikes or having bikes on their premises..its strictly the charger and the battery and they're kept out back somewhere so should be safe, but the person accepts the risk if they get stolen.

 

[morphix]

If this scheme of ours took off massively or something like it, with loads of members registering on the website.. you could in theory organise your own insurance scheme for members batteries and possibly even bikes (if left on premises). Now there's a thought. You could charge a small premium, or perhaps a membership fee if there was sufficient interest among the membership.. and just keep the free option where they take the risk. Getting insurance for batteries/chargers and ebikes in general is notoriously difficult and most of the big insurance companies just either won't touch them or have so many clauses that the policies are worthless. I would love to see a more honest straightforward approach. This might also make even more businesses friendly to the idea who might be adverse to the risk side of having peoples property on their premises while absent.

 

[Scottyf]

Sorry maybe I've been a bit vague.

I think if businesses realised the actual cost to charge a battery from a mains outlet none of them would be to fussed about you using the socket. No one seems to mind if I fire up the laptop and plug it in.
If I was carry a 10ah 36v battery they all might be a little suspect.

The charging points would need to be secure from theft and also saftey as well. Most batteries that ar e plug and play are pretty safe anyway but from both points of view they are both needed.

I wouldn't mind posting a few flyers to business detailing a scheme and getting them onside with a bit of free publicity. After all its not really costing them anything. Just an avaliable socket.
The same as charging a laptop.
I used to charge mine in coffee places that offered free Wifi. I also charged on trains too.

Getting the awareness up would really be a good start before tackling the larger issues.

The point is its not actually cost business anything. Its a free advertisement and bike friendly charging point.
Businesses like it when there is no real cost involved.
I wouldn't make them put up a bike stand or have liablility of bikes. Even the bike shops around here have a couple of stands but thats it.

Although there are electric car points on the streets now.


If you was going to approach a business with the idea they would need somewhere for people to park their bike and securley charge there bike I'd think your find it bvery difficult to get them onside. Espcially with the frequency that bikes would even turn up.

 

[wurly]

Great suggestions and input everyone but I think we are getting well ahead of ourselves. All we need are some stickers printed up that reflect an ebike friendly premises that will allow the use of a 3pin plug.
We could have a carefully worded letter that explains the idea behind the stickers, how businesses could benefit by attracting extra customers and also explain that a suggested reasonable charge would more than cover the electricity provided to any ebike.
As i have experienced already, people are wary of us ebikers plugging in what they conceive as high powered equiment.
I think it would necessary to have a 'code of conduct' for ebikers to keep to the 'understanding' of what is being provided and where. Can you imagine extension cables being run along doorways? there are many possible problems that could be encountered (I won't mention fire risk). These fears for busineses are probably the reason why the uptake may not be very high. It's still worth a try though.

 

[morphix]

That's where the website comes in. Need to educate and explain to businesses exactly what's involved, how much batteries cost to charge, how long it takes, how safe they are to handle etc. And also promote or sell the idea to them, that it's good for their community and good for business. It's difficult for someone to just turn up at some business with a sticker and explain all that and not have a business treat it with some scepticism or doubt. What need people perhaps need to do is basically act as an introducer..by handing over a leaflet saying this is the idea, this is the website, take a look and consider signing up. Maybe go back and follow up and answer any questions they might have or they can e-mail the site for those with internet.

I like the idea of the "code of conduct" for ebikers using the charge points. I think the charging and use of facilities has to be carried out by the business owners tho. Basically you would go in, hand over your charger and battery and they would plug it in for you out back somewhere and you come back at an agreed time or wait on the premises.

I mentioned the idea of a charge and I agree with it in principle..like £1 or something as it might be a financial incentive for businesses. But others don't seem so keen. It would be a small charge really for the convenience of having your battery charged, but I can see how the charges would mount up if you were using the facilities a lot or frequently. Perhaps a compromise would be...if the charge is more than 1 or 2 hours its £1 or below that its free. So smaller batteries or top-up charging would be free. The charge rate would be set on the website and agreed to by all businesses.


It is a simple concept and not unreasonable what we're asking of businesses, but there are some hurdles to get over.

 

[morphix]

I think to avoid the complicated issue of a payment charge just leave it open on the website for future discussion and not rule it out. If businesses start saying they would prefer some payment, at a later date, then raise the issue on the website.

Then it could be decided by vote from all the registered members on the site, both ebikers and businesses. Two separate votes, one for businesses, and one for ebikers, then some compromise could be reached that suits both.

I think we should aim to make it a free service though from the start and try to get businesses to support that idea.

 

[morphix]

The legal side....

Ok I'm starting to get some feedback from the legal eagles about our idea and I'm pleased to report there doesn't seem to be any law or legal obstacles preventing any type of businesses from charging our batteries for us.

Safety of electrical equipment in the workplace comes under the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 (HSW Act). It's largely just common sense rather than restrictive. Making sure equipment is used safely and that it meets required safety standards to protect employees more than anything. Providing the equipment doesn't have any bare wires or contact points on the battery, has a standard UK plug, a fuse etc and it's charged in a normal socket somewhere safe away from the general public, there's no problem at all.

There are some safety standards (regulations) on electrical equipment but this is more for the manufacturing and sale of, rather than the use of, from what I understand. I don't believe there is any specific law which says a business can't use a non-EU certified/approved foreign battery charger, providing of course the health & safety law is observed and there is no risk to employees or the general public

 

[kitchenman]

WHere I work a company comes in from time to time to test all the electric equipment. For example my notebook charger has a label on the power supply. Photo:

 

[Trevor Holloway]

On the subject of charging to charge :
Lets be honest here, the e-bike uptake is very small nationally and the actual chances of one of these establishments getting someone wanting to charge their battery are even slimmer, therefore if any establishment had a sticker up they would probably only get requests once a month so the cost of power initially would be tiny !

So just having the sticker and friendly pub landlords / restranteurs / historic building employees would be a good start.

If I were staying at a B&B I would not even ask to charge my battery, in the same way I would not ask if I want to plug in a shaver / hairdryer etc.

 

[funkylyn]

OK.....time to get recruiting

First business onside and happy to allow charging is

MINSTER ESTATES
26 Silver Street,
ILMINSTER
Somerset
TA19 0DR

Tel: 01460 55884

Owner Shirley Wood

Very happy to help and sends her best wishes for the success of the venture.

Lynda

 

[morphix]

WHere I work a company comes in from time to time to test all the electric equipment. For example my notebook charger has a label on the power supply. Photo:
View attachment 2888

Oh yes I think companies that have electrical equipment used by employees have a legal responsibility to make sure it complies with safety standards. You often see this too if you ever visited an auction sale room that sells second hand electrical equipment. Everything has a tested label on it and is signed off as safe by a qualified electrician so the public are protected.

I think in our case though, this wouldn't apply because it's strictly a private arrangement between the business owner and the person asking them to charge the battery, it's not part of their business activity. If they asked employees to charge batteries though, that might be a different matter eh.

 

[morphix]

OK.....time to get recruiting

First business onside and happy to allow charging is

MINSTER ESTATES
26 Silver Street,
ILMINSTER
Somerset
TA19 0DR

Tel: 01460 55884

Owner Shirley Wood

Very happy to help and sends her best wishes for the success of the venture.

Lynda

Wow well done Lynda. Our first charging point What kind of business does she run? And did you have any difficulty persuading her or explaining the idea? Did she understand about ebikes?

 

[morphix]

On the subject of charging to charge :
Lets be honest here, the e-bike uptake is very small nationally and the actual chances of one of these establishments getting someone wanting to charge their battery are even slimmer, therefore if any establishment had a sticker up they would probably only get requests once a month so the cost of power initially would be tiny !

So just having the sticker and friendly pub landlords / restranteurs / historic building employees would be a good start.

If I were staying at a B&B I would not even ask to charge my battery, in the same way I would not ask if I want to plug in a shaver / hairdryer etc.

Good common sense prospective Trevor. Perhaps we should now then just press ahead and agree on the logo and start work on the site, as there doesn't seem to be any reason not to. Even if the take up is tiny and we only get a dozen or so charge points every year its still of some benefit to ebikers in those areas.