Longevity of motors

[DJH]

Electric bikes have been around for a few years now and I wondered what the relative merits were of the different types of motors with regard to longevity and maintenance (I see Scottyf has just posted something on this issue).
The impression I get is that hub motors are more reliable than crank drive motors but is that correct? Which are the easiest to carry out maintenance on? How long can I expect a hub/crank drive motor to last(1000's of miles)?

Thanks

 

[flecc]

There's so much variability it's difficult to answer. Overall the original Panasonic crank unit has been the champion for longevity with units running well at up to 10 years old with no maintenance whatsoever. But there's been a very small proportion that have failed with one of four known possible faults. The newer version also appears to have very high reliability, but it's only been around up to five years and most on the road are much less old than that. However, those known possible faults were designed out of it so it's promising.

The Suzhou Bafang hub motors can often last a very long time and many thousands of miles, but they are also prone to failure of the internal nylon gears. Apart from the odd faulty new one that fails very early, they mostly get past 5000 miles without trouble and can do a multiple of that in the best cases.

But there's more to this than simple reliability. Those nylon gears on the SB are easily and cheaply replaced and periodic greasing extends their life, but a failed Panasonic unit has no official repair, just expensive replacement of the whole unit at around £500, though the first two years is covered with a cast iron warranty. You can see these put a different light on matters.

The Heinzmann and original Powabyke motors can last many years, but their brushes do have to be replaced from time to time, a routine maintenance matter though.

Many of the motors on the market today are just too new to be able to say, only time will tell.

 

[Scottyf]

Looking at my gears and ring gear despite the crap all over them they still appear to be in good nick. I've road daily 100miles a week since Feb (Although the first two months where on a different motor).

Mine still works remarkable at a lower speed since the bearings are now shafted. However I'd expect at least 10K out of the gears.

Alot will also depend on the power and usage. Like cars and anything that suffers wear.
They are very reliable. I've had more issues with connections than the motor itself.

 

[DJH]

But there's more to this than simple reliability. Those nylon gears on the SB are easily and cheaply replaced and periodic greasing extends their life, but a failed Panasonic unit has no official repair, just expensive replacement of the whole unit at around £500, though the first two years is covered with a cast iron warranty. You can see these put a different light on it.

Worrying after two years if you have a problem with the Panasonic and battery replacement on the horizon. Are all the other crank drive motors non repairable?

 

[flecc]

Worrying after two years if you have a problem with the Panasonic and battery replacement on the horizon. Are all the other crank drive motors non repairable?

I don't know, but it's likely since that sort of technical repair is well beyond most bike dealers. However, such an early failure is extremely rare and I'm speaking of the earlier Panasonic unit in that respect. Using my Panasonic support website some of those known rare issues could be repaired and were in many cases. Those where component repair wasn't possible and no spares available could be dealt with by using parts from much older failed units. On a number of occasions a bike was returned to use that way, and on one occasion two good bikes were made out of three in co-operation with an owner. Since the remaining bike of the three went to a bicycle museum, all three ended up useful.

There have been no internal issues with the newer unit that I've heard of. Most of the other new makes have been built on Panasonic's experience so I expect them to be very reliable too.

 

[DJH]

Thanks flecc, your link is brilliant!

 

[mike killay]

Tonaro set up a test rig to simulate a 100kg rider at a constant 25kph and let it run. Last heard of, it had just passed 11,000km, but that was several months ago. The real beauty of the system is that when the motor or gearbox does eventually pack up, replacement is very simple and inexpensive. At present, the motors are priced at £145.59.

 

[flecc]

Mike, is that just the motor or the whole power unit price? For the whole unit that would be a bargain.

 

[Cyclezee]

Just to clarify, the price quoted is for the motor only as can be seen here 36V Brushless Motor - Spares.
I think the price reasonable as are other Tonaro parts.

 

[Cyclezee]

The in house designed eZee motors have proven to be very reliable since switching from SB a few years ago.

 

[flecc]

Just to clarify, the price quoted is for the motor only as can be seen here 36V Brushless Motor - Spares.
I think the price reasonable as are other Tonaro parts.

Not bad but not special for only the motor. It's not a fair comparison with the Panasonic unit I quoted though, that being for the entire unit including motor, controller, internal transmission, chainwheel, motor drive sprocket, battery platform, wiring and connectors.

 

[mike killay]

Not bad but not special for only the motor. It's not a fair comparison with the Panasonic unit I quoted though, that being for the entire unit including motor, controller, internal transmission, chainwheel, motor drive sprocket, battery platform, wiring and connectors.

At £500 for what is essentially the whole heart of the matter, that is a good price.

 

[Kudoscycles]

The Suzhou Bafang motor seems to be one of the most reliable parts of the e-bike. Ever since Kudos was established(about 13 months now) we have never supplied a replacement motor under warranty.
Dave
KudosCycles

 

[JuicyBike]

Parts availability and pricing is an important consideration when selecting any product. Ours are available here:
:: Juicy Bike :: reliable electric bikes ::

 

[funkylyn]

Not bad but not special for only the motor. It's not a fair comparison with the Panasonic unit I quoted though, that being for the entire unit including motor, controller, internal transmission, chainwheel, motor drive sprocket, battery platform, wiring and connectors.

Surely though, and correct me if I am wrong, ( I am certainly not mechanically minded ), as I see it, the beauty of replacement parts for the Tonaro ,as opposed to the Panasonic unit, is that you wouldnt have to buy the whole thing complete ...... just the parts you need ?
Would you necessarily need all those bits at once, as is the case with the Panasonic unit ?
And indeed , if you did, would the price be less than Panasonics if you had to buy all the Tonaro parts separately ?

But hopefully, with their good reliability, this wont be a problem I will have to cope with in the near future

Lynda

 

[flecc]

Given the history of the similar Yamaha unit Lynda, I doubt there'll be many problems with the Tonaro unit. And that's the point with the Panasonic unit as well, the chances of ever needing one are very small so can be discounted as a buying factor. I wouldn't let it influence my decision. Many who've bought a Panasonic unit bike have had theirs for many years, sometimes to when they no longer e-bike, sometimes until buying into a newer Panasonic equipped replacement like a Gazelle or Kalkhoff. Where these units are concerned, brand loyalty figures very highly as it did in mainland Europe to some extent with the old Yamaha PAS style bikes. If the Tonaro units are as reliable as I suspect they may prove to be, that brand may benefit long term in the same way.

 

[lemmy]

Tonaro set up a test rig to simulate a 100kg rider at a constant 25kph and let it run. Last heard of, it had just passed 11,000km, but that was several months ago.

No reflection on the Tonaro (about which l know nothing) but tests like this tell you very little about the units. It is stop start, hard use use in hot and cold conditions, differing stresses, occasional abuse and so on that lead to failure.

Running anything in a steady state condition flatters it, witness how engines used predominantly on motorways nearly always have long service lives whereas ones doing a couple of thousand miles a year in town stop start often exhibit early failure or unreliability.

If you want to know the reliability of something look at manufacturers' warranty repair rates and user forums.

 

[flecc]

Absolutely right Lemmy, these continuous tests and stable condition record runs are routinely used by car companies and they prove nothing. In fact car companies know from long experience that no matter how much they test and perfect a model, consumers will still suffer from faults they failed to find.

 

[Mussels]

I had to change the plastic gears in my Bafang motor after about 15 thousand miles, it was a fairly basic servicing job done with basic tools. Not really anything to worry about as there was no sudden failure and plenty of warning giving me time to get a new set.

 

[DJH]

Thanks, all the replies have given me more confidence in the technology. I suppose if you have no electric bike shops close by you feel on your own and this forum bridges the information gap. So far I've done about 650 miles on my bike since July and had no problems to speak of, long may it continue!