Please keep it simple, regarding what I need Thanks

[Saracen]

My son and I are both Autistic, there is no way I can afford new electric bikes.

I have a good Saracen Mantra from 13 years back and my Sanderson life frame cruiser I built.

Both are 26, 3bys, and I would like to add a drive to them that is UK legal.

I have NO idea where to start other than here.

We ride off road, gentle, but that is not easy at 65.

ANY advice will be much appreciated

Thank you

 

[Saracen]

I note that I have THIS setup on our SLX and XT Shimano crankset, and the sales site says "
Things to think about before purchasing this rear drive conversion kit:
1- If you wish to include a Pedal Assistance System with your eKit, the bottom bracket on your bike needs to be a Square Taper type (which is the most common bottom bracket on ordinary bikes). If you don’t have a square taper bottom bracket, you may need to replace it as well as the crank arms to make your bike compatible with the PAS. If in doubt, please consult a bike service shop on how to fit a square taper bottom bracket on your bike."

250W/500W Rear Drive eKit

36V 500W Ebike Conversion Kit, Rear Wheel 26", 27.5, 28" 700C Electric Bike Conversion Kit with Optional Battery and Pedal Assistance System with Choice of LCD, LED Display, Brushless Rear Hub Motor, 29er eBike Conversion Kit, 36V 250W Rear Wheel Ebike Co

cyclotricity.com

 

[saneagle]

I note that I have THIS setup on our SLX and XT Shimano crankset, and the sales site says "
Things to think about before purchasing this rear drive conversion kit:
1- If you wish to include a Pedal Assistance System with your eKit, the bottom bracket on your bike needs to be a Square Taper type (which is the most common bottom bracket on ordinary bikes). If you don’t have a square taper bottom bracket, you may need to replace it as well as the crank arms to make your bike compatible with the PAS. If in doubt, please consult a bike service shop on how to fit a square taper bottom bracket on your bike."

250W/500W Rear Drive eKit

36V 500W Ebike Conversion Kit, Rear Wheel 26", 27.5, 28" 700C Electric Bike Conversion Kit with Optional Battery and Pedal Assistance System with Choice of LCD, LED Display, Brushless Rear Hub Motor, 29er eBike Conversion Kit, 36V 250W Rear Wheel Ebike Co

cyclotricity.com

View attachment 53531

Your bike has a square taper bottom bracket. The only question is whether you have enough room for a pedal sensor. Turn the bike upside down and take a photo od the whole arrangement, like in the second photo in this thread:

Rocky Mountain Element Conversion

I started the conversion today. This one will have one or more novel features. which I'm still trying to work out, so might be a bit slower than what I normally do. I snagged the bike for £380 and the kit cost about £500 including batteries, so I'm hoping to keep the total to less than £1000...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

 

[saneagle]

My son and I are both Autistic, there is no way I can afford new electric bikes.

I have a good Saracen Mantra from 13 years back and my Sanderson life frame cruiser I built.

Both are 26, 3bys, and I would like to add a drive to them that is UK legal.

I have NO idea where to start other than here.

We ride off road, gentle, but that is not easy at 65.

ANY advice will be much appreciated

Thank you

View attachment 53530

Doing a conversion isn't always the cheapest option. Do it because you like doing DIY projects or because you want to get a bike exactly like you need. here's a ready made electric MTB on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/GSOU-Electric-Mountain-Powerful-27-Speed/dp/B0BZNVF2RY/ref=sr_1_4?crid=28FPCA5RS96FI&keywords=electric%2Bbike&qid=1692882682&sprefix=electric%2Bbike%2Caps%2C79&sr=8-4&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.42a483c5-1df2-46ee-a728-92d018483bf9&th=1

 

[Saracen]

Your bike has a square taper bottom bracket. The only question is whether you have enough room for a pedal sensor. Turn the bike upside down and take a photo od the whole arrangement, like in the second photo in this thread:

Rocky Mountain Element Conversion

I started the conversion today. This one will have one or more novel features. which I'm still trying to work out, so might be a bit slower than what I normally do. I snagged the bike for £380 and the kit cost about £500 including batteries, so I'm hoping to keep the total to less than £1000...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

Will do this weekend thanks

 

[Saracen]

Here is my bike

 

[Saracen]

"Square" bottom bracket" ???

I do also have hollowtech XT cranks etc !

 

[thelarkbox]

"Square" bottom bracket" ???

I do also have hollowtech XT cranks etc !

Just a newbie myself with a single week old kit build to my name..
hollowtech cranks are actually hollow i think (i googled em before my own purchase)

I dont think the 'standard' pas sensor will fit as your pic 1602 looks close to the red crossed crank pic from the suppliers site.

However thats not a big problem just a hiccup.

I visited the suppliers ad page and the pas sensor in their parts list

looks like it would be very easy to add to the front or rear wheel without too much difficulty.
the ring of magnets just needs to turn when you want the motor to engage if turned by the crank or the wheel isnt really important just as long as the magnets spin and the sensor is strapped to the frame close enough to register.


However my lay basic understanding of uk/eu law which is very basic and very lay and ilinformed is screaming BULLSHIT in my ears regarding the motor rated @500w and fixed in f/w as uk street legal??
I a proven idiot* call ****** to that.. Or I misread/misunderstood.
* see my track record in here...

Now while a motor rated at 250w may well run at 500 750 or even 1000w (probably not for long?)
AS far as uk law is concerned its the motors rating thats important NOT its ability.. hence the additional 'need' to restict speed..

If i am wrong please shut me down asap, but this screams of dodgy to me and i think op should avoid if i am right?

 

[Nealh]

For hollowtech BB or similar you need the BZ10C PAS set up, though you will have to lose the small chain ring to fit the disc. Other wise for sq taper use a std two piece 8 pole PAS.

 

[thelarkbox]

The description and specs from the site i consider a bit dodgy..

Are you torn between choosing a powerful kit and a road-legal kit? Well, have both in one!
The UK/EU regulations dictate that a kit must not exceed the rated power of 250W to be road-legal. Which is not great news for the thrill-seekers, power hungry among us who want to have the occasional fun off-road yet still be able to ride sensibly and legally on-road. A purchase of the common high-powered kit will come with its legal implications. On the other hand, the practicality of a road-legal kit means giving up the fun one could have off-road. So which kit do you choose?
With these new rear wheel kits, CycloTricity had set out to resolve this very dilemma for its customers. We have developed a unique system that allows the user to swap between two modes depending on whether you are on-road or off-road, allowing you to unlock the full power where it is safe and legal to do so.This dual-mode system is embedded in the LCD Dashboard which can unlock the full power of the kit using a special code (this can be obtained upon signing the de-restriction terms of use).Please note that this is not the same as a de-restriction switch which has been questionable from a legal standpoint.
We’ve gone to extraordinary lengths to ensure you get the most out of your conversion kit purchase, with the most robust and durable components today’s technology has to offer. All at arguably the best value for money kits found in the UK.
Electric bike kit specifications:

• Motor: 500W gearless brushless rear hub motor, comes integrated in a wheel size of your choice.
• Restricted to 250W and 25km/h by default as a road-legal kit
• 500W mode reaches maximum speed of 32km/h once de-restricted (requires ading the LCD Display)

 

[sjpt]

The description and specs from the site i consider a bit dodgy..

Decidedly dodgy. The clearly describe an off-road switch which is explicitly ruled out in the legislation.
There can be some legal doubt if the switching is very difficult to do and can't be done while riding (eg reflashing firmware); but they emphasize the simplicity of use of the switch so clearly placing it outside the law.

 

[thelarkbox]

I was more concerned with the prospect of OP ridding a bike with a big motor stamped 500w and trying to tell a police officer its ok its limited in firmware?? I dont think that would wash??

 

[StuartsProjects]

Decidedly dodgy.

Indeed.

Unfortunatly a lot of current legislation, and not just for eBikes, is soft regulation.

No doubt the politicians think they have achieved lots and earned their wages by introducing particular rules and regulations, but then they do zero to enforce them.

What CycloTricity are up to does indeed sound dodgy and they seem to assume they have come up with a cunning wheeze (Baldrick) plan to circumvent the legisltation. Of course that might be true, but with no established legal providence they are putting the users of their clearly de-restricted bikes at risk of prosecution, loosing driving licenses etc.

But sales are sales.

 

[Saracen]

Does anyone have a problem with FRONT wheel conversions only you don't hear a lot about them, why?

 

[sjpt]

We've got front wheel on the tandem and it works well. (More oomph would be helpful but that's another story.) On a solo bike they can lack grip on steep slippy/gravelly roads/paths, especially if the controller doesn't give smooth power delivery. On the tandem the two wheel drive effect has often meant the front motor pulled us out of a slip on the (human powered) rear wheel; especially on slight uphill damp grass.

They rely on appropriate forks; typically steel non suspension. Very poor if the forks can't handle it.

 

[guerney]

What CycloTricity are up to does indeed sound dodgy and they seem to assume they have come up with a cunning wheeze (Baldrick) plan to circumvent the legisltation. Of course that might be true, but with no established legal providence they are putting the users of their clearly de-restricted bikes at risk of prosecution, loosing driving licenses etc.

I suppose (?) they could argue that having to enter a code to increase motor power and increase assisted speed, plus whatever else (22A controller is quoted on their website)...

250W/500W Rear Drive eKit

36V 500W Ebike Conversion Kit, Rear Wheel 26", 27.5, 28" 700C Electric Bike Conversion Kit with Optional Battery and Pedal Assistance System with Choice of LCD, LED Display, Brushless Rear Hub Motor, 29er eBike Conversion Kit, 36V 250W Rear Wheel Ebike Co

cyclotricity.com

...isn't a "switch", much as de-restricting my BBS01B kit requires mutiple button presses using the display's menu system while the bike is standing still... but that still leaves what the motor is marked as, for plod roadside inspection: Will it be a 250W or 500W manufacturer's rating printed on the motor? I doubt cops will accept that kit is legal, and it'd probably be harder to convince them by showing them that web page.

 

[StuartsProjects]

I suppose (?) they could argue that having to enter a code to increase motor power and increase assisted speed,

So to turn on 'hi power' mode you need to press some buttons.

Sounds like a simple switch to me.

 

[thelarkbox]

@Saracen Didnt mean to sidetrack your thread, but that site smelled wrong..

As to whats UK legal lots of folk can discuss that for hours n get nowhere as a lot of it is all untested,,afaik all we can do is act within the spirit of the law as best as possible playing safe.

To get us all back on track perhaps list what you want from your ebike or kit.
Your bike looks like a fine candidate for a kit imho regardless of pas sensor options. .
is enabling higher speeds and or throttle control for off road play a requirement even?

 

[guerney]

So to turn on 'hi power' mode you need to press some buttons.

Sounds like a simple switch to me.

As to whats UK legal lots of folk can discuss that for hours n get nowhere as a lot of it is all untested,,afaik all we can do is act within the spirit of the law as best as possible playing safe.

A lot of legal ground was well stomped over on this thread:

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/pedelec-law-the-details.37594/

 

[Nealh]

Does anyone have a problem with FRONT wheel conversions only you don't hear a lot about them, why?

Best to start your own thread as generally your quaestion and answers get lost by hijacking another thread.

 

[thelarkbox]

Best to start your own thread as generally your quaestion and answers get lost by hijacking another thread.

WHOOPSIE!! This IS our New Pal @Saracen 's Thread
He asked about front wheel kits right after i rained on his linked to Ad for a back wheel kit..
And he added his bike pic to his profile icon which may have thrown you...
Not had that required mug of strong tea yet perhaps?