Potential scam warning

[Jeremy]

I haven't posted here for a while, as my ebikes don't really fall into line with the bikes discussed here very much, but there's an advert on ebay that has been flagged on the Endless Sphere forum as being potentially dodgy and so worth bringing to people's attention.

The advert is for an illegal to use on UK roads kit, with up to 12kW claimed power. It uses video and images stolen from other sites as advertising material, and is misrepresenting those images and video as being representative of the kit they are advertising.

I challenged the seller by raising the issue of the use of images and video that weren't of their product and was told they work with "piratebay" and were not interested in copyright. They also gave me the threat "we are watching your account now" on ebay.

Here's a link to their ebay advert: 2WD Electric Ebike Kit 12,000 Watts 0-55MPH in 5seconds on eBay (end time 15-Dec-10 11:57:46 GMT)

Note that some of the images that claim to be a two wheel drive ebike are of a well-known single wheel drive bike with the battery in the other wheel. The video is of an ES Forum members ebike built a year or so ago, they've just copied it and reposted it on YouTube as their own.

I won't join in any debate on this, I just thought it worth bringing to your attention, as this forum is probably the most popular for UK ebikers. I'd hate to see someone get caught out when spending this much money on something, and fear they might, if the morals of the seller are anything to go by.

Jeremy

 

[flecc]

Good to see you post again Jeremy, although different from our mainstream I've used your stylish recumbent a few times as an example of a really top class conversion.

Thanks for the warning. Member Fordulike posted with a link to this a few weeks ago and I'd spotted the photo differences with one clearly the Tidal Force model, but I didn't go into the the scam implications at the time.
.

 

[EdBike]

Thanks for sharing Jeremy. If we all report the seller to eBay, they can investigate.

Although he does seem to have an awful lot of suspiciously genuine feedback from buyers (with hundreds, even thousands of transactions).

eBay My World - com2wdcycleswww

The company in question is 2WD Limited. They have a website here which was created on the 27th November 2010:

76 Boughey Road
Stoke-on-Trent
ST4 2BB

They don't have a landline to call them on either, just a mobile number.

And if you Google Earth that you'll find its just a house, not an office or anything.

Their returns policy is frightening too: Return Policy - 2WDCycles

 

[Fordulike]

Their returns policy is frightening too: Return Policy - 2WDCycles

What's the betting that no matter how well you try and comply with their returns policy, you wont qualify

 

[Scimitar]

Interesting. I sent a scathing question about video, claims and safety; also recommended that they get some basic engineering knowledge and a clue to go with it.
Oh, I do hope I get a reply

 

[Jeremy]

An update. I questioned the seller regarding the images and videos being of other peoples creations/products, pointing out that they were being used without permission. The reply I got at first was this:

"we're two guys who work with the piratebay, yes,
thank you, we're not
interested in copyright. As
for the kits, they're genuine, we are trying
to
promote green initiatives and don't have time to
take videos
I
hope that helps
John
-com2wdcycleswww"

Others have been emailing them, I suspect, as I've since had several ebay messages from the same seller, despite me not responding to the last couple from them. The last of these reads:

"you've defamed us for some photographs that we
used, and are undercutting
our sales, when we're
trying to promote ebikes to the community...we
just couldn't get anything done in time for x-mas
so threw some stuff
on.
this demands an apology, we've sold kits to
peopel who are really
happy with them. you are in
contravention of the defamation act yourself
and
have committed an offence!
That ES thread is a pack of lies, we're
selling
honestly and properly to people. sometimes you're
so full of
s***
-com2wdcycleswww"

(asterisks inserted by me, the rest of the text is verbatim)

They have now removed the images of other bikes from their ebay advert, not because of anything I've done, I'm sure, I suspect they may have been reported by one of those whose images they misused. They still have the video of Patrick's bike, taken from YouTube, copied by them and reposted as their own, but I understand he's not bothered about it.

Maybe these guys are genuine and honest and have just misused images out of ignorance of the law, maybe they weren't. I guess everyone has to make up their own mind as to whether or not to buy from them.

Jeremy

 

[Scimitar]

A reply...

"the fact that we build each kit up 8 hours a go
means nothing then
nono, we'll build as fast as
we qwant, and as tough as we want, and sell
them
properly to our customers once we've got videos
up. it is you who
can't handle that"

Stupid bastards. It's one thing building a fast ebike for one's own use, but selling kits that will do a claimed 55mph opens up a whole world of trouble when someone's frame breaks, or a wheel collapses under the strain a bicycle was never designed for.
I suspect that any product liabilty considerations just passed them by and if the worst does happen, this pair of clowns will simply decamp from their squat and pop up selling some other tat.

 

[tillson]

Iv'e just had a look at their website and the postal address for the company is

2WDCycles
General Manger
76 boughey road
76 Boughey Road
Stoke-on-Trent
ST4 2BB

Before parting with any money for a private sale or anything else that could be a bit ropey, I probably base 70% of my decision to even consider the product on the look of the area that the seller is operating from. That might be a bit unfair on some sellers, but the policy hasn't failed me yet.

Put the above post code into Google Street View and decide if you would send the, "General Manager" a thousand pounds. Number 76 is just past the junction. It's a charming mid terraced property in need of some modernisation.

 

[Jeremy]

Oh dear. Is it the one with the black paintwork around the door and windows, with a couple of handwritten signs on the front window?

Jeremy

 

[Jeremy]

Good to see you post again Jeremy, although different from our mainstream I've used your stylish recumbent a few times as an example of a really top class conversion.

Thanks for the warning. Member Fordulike posted with a link to this a few weeks ago and I'd spotted the photo differences with one clearly the Tidal Force model, but I didn't go into the the scam implications at the time.
.

Thanks, flecc.

I've now sold the recumbent and am mainly riding around on a budget alloy folding bike, fitted with a Bafang rear hub motor, a 37V, 10Ah home made LiPo battery pack and a modified 6 FET XieChang controller, with a 30A current limit. It is fairly light, relatively stealthy and was fairly cheap to put together.

I've also added a home made "fuel gauge" that displays Ah remaining in the battery pack on a small handlebar mounted meter.

Jeremy

 

[tillson]

Oh dear. Is it the one with the black paintwork around the door and windows, with a couple of handwritten signs on the front window?

Jeremy

I'm afraid it is.

ps. Your folding bike is very impressive. Very clean simple lines. It looks really good.

 

[Jeremy]

If that house is the one, then the tip about checking places out on Google Earth is an extremely good one. I'd not thought of it before, but it seems obvious now that it's been mentioned. In future I think that Ill do this whenever making a fairly big purchase on line, thanks very much for the tip.

Thanks also for the kind words about the folder. I'm very pleased with the way it's turned out. It's not exactly UK legal, with about 1kW on tap and power assist up to around 22 to 25mph, plus the ability to pull wheelies at full throttle up hills, but I like it..................

Jeremy

 

[flecc]

That's a very neat conversion again Jeremy, cleaner looking lines than most commercial e-folders.

Like you, I'm just using one 20" wheel Quando based e-folder, very functional but not as smart and tidy looking
as yours.
.

 

[EdBike]

If that house is the one, then the tip about checking places out on Google Earth is an extremely good one. I'd not thought of it before, but it seems obvious now that it's been mentioned. In future I think that Ill do this whenever making a fairly big purchase on line, thanks very much for the tip.

Or just stick with a reputable, trusted retailer with:

• A clear returns policy
• A business address displayed (i.e. not on some residential estate)
• A contact telephone number that ISN'T a mobile number (i.e. 07XXXXXXX) and preferably is a proper 0800, although any landline will do.
• Displays clear SSL and McAfee secure labels (or other verifiable brand).
• A price that isn't suspect. e-Bikes for £50?? Even from Nigeria
• A payment option that allows you to dispute any possible problems. (e.g. credit card, PayPal) Never bank transfer, Western Union or cash.
• Tracked delivery
• Preferably not from overseas (when it goes wrong, having a foreign seller is a nightmare). Definitely not from outside the EU.

 

[Jeremy]

I'd agree with most of those points, except the one about buying from outside the EU.

I've bought a lot of stuff online over the years and, in order of the number of problems I've had, I have to say that UK sellers have been the worst, followed by the US, then one in the EU. I've bought literally masses of stuff from China, with not a single problem, other than some communication difficulties at times.

If I had to choose, purely on the basis of country of origin, then I'd prefer to deal directly with a Chinese vendor than one from the UK. I know that others may have had different experiences, but, allowing for the cultural and language difficulties I've always found Chinese vendors to be honest and trustworthy.

Jeremy

 

[NRG]

Hi Jeremy good to see you posting here again along with details on your folder. Your fuel gauge is working well on my bike and I'm finding it very useful, seems to be accurate despite me not getting around to calibrating the shunt!

 

[Jeremy]

I'm glad the "fuel gauge" works for you, too. I find it very reassuring to have a simple indication of how much juice I have left in the pack.

The ebay seller has turned out to be an ES Forum member, a chap who's sucked expertise from ES members, purchased components from them and then set up a business to re-sell them as their own product, using misleading material culled from that forum as advertising material.

I find the whole thing distasteful in the extreme, particularly as I've always taken the view that anything I post in any forum is public domain, free to be used by others as they wish, PROVIDED that they do the decent thing and acknowledge the source.

Jeremy