Powabyke loss of power solved ??

stemil · May 18, 2012

There's quite a nice panel on ebay at the moment BTW, I don't know whether or not it is suitable for your model of Powabyke but would definately smarten things up-

Item 170840866732

neptune · May 19, 2012

@Stemil. I am glad to see you on this thread, as your information is based on practical experience.
@Russel. Please do not worry about how many questions you need to ask us . That is the whole purpose of this forum. I would rather answer one thousand questions than see you get it wrong. Do not worry about the "double wiring"to the hub at this stage.
Vital questions for you.
Have you checked the dimensions of the new controller to make sure it will fit the available space.
Can you solder, and do you have a soldering iron?
Do you have a multimeter, and do you know how to use it?

One area where you might struggle is wiring up the ignition switch . We can talk you through it , but you probably need a multimeter for the job. I believe you are in Leicester, I am in Boston , Lincs.I am going out for a bit, but back later.

russell · May 19, 2012

stemil said:
Hi Russell, The Motor cable doubles up above the connector located on the left fork, I do not have the bike to hand at the moment but going from memory red and blue = positive, yellow and green = negative.
Roughly where are you located?
Good luck.

I have just had a look on the Powabyke web site and found the wiring connections they read
7 pin power
pedal/motion sensor 3 pin
ignition 3 pin
throttle 3 pin will this cause me problems with the replacement, I promise I wont bother you again (at least not tonight)

russell · May 19, 2012

stemil said:
There's quite a nice panel on ebay at the moment BTW, I don't know whether or not it is suitable for your model of Powabyke but would definately smarten things up-

Item 170840866732

At long last someone has responded to a gap in the market for aftermarket extras......I agree , it is a very useful smart panel, unfortunately the auction has ended and is not relisted but I have emailed the seller in the hope that they are available,, it is for my model and would as you say smarten it up.If I cant get one I will think about cutting one out myself,,I have that much junk in my garage I'm sure to find something.......thanks for letting me know,,,did you see my post about the Powabyke website and the controller connections?/

NRG · May 19, 2012

neptune said:
@NRG. Thanks for that explanation. This is more or less what I expected. So to return to practical matters. We do not know what the current limiter is set to in the original controller. Please tell me if you agree with the following three statements.

1. As the battery fuse is rated at 20 amps, the original controller will probably be 15 to 18 amps, so that working the motor hard will not blow the fuse, only an electrical fault will blow it.

2. If we fit a controller rated as say 30 amps, we will have no problem unless we work the motor really hard . If we do, the fuse will blow.

3.So basically what I am saying is that the ideal controller for this bike would be rated at 36 volts, 15 to 18 amps , which is equal to 440 watts.

Look on Ebay for 36v 250-350 W Speed Controller Box Electric Bike Scooter. Seller is novaproductsuk.
Same seller has also a throttle , check all dimensions. Controller is limited to 18 amps which is near enough.Wiring up looks straightforward.

1. Yes, could well be.
2. Not really, you should rate the controller to fit the battery and motor rating as per the quote from d8veh, we dont want to use the fuse as a current limiter!
3. It would seem so...

neptune · May 19, 2012

@NRG. Thanks for kindly commenting on my statements. I have learned some thing myself here about the need for current limiting.
@Russell. If you decide to buy the controller , buy the throttle from the same supplier , you will get a compatible throttle, which will plug straight into the new controller, and save on postage . Do not order anything without checking dimensions, including handlebar size.If you decide to go for it I will post a step by step guide to wiring up.

Important question. is your bike the model with the motor in the front wheel and 5 speed gears and the motion sensor on the back wheel, left side.

If it is, I will strip out the controller from my bike to have a look what goes where to help me to help you .I will not do this untill you let me know that you are going ahead with the project .

@Stimil. I have not had a look at the bike yet, but trying to grasp the double wiring thing . My understanding is as follows. The cable that leaves the hub is a 2 wire cable. At the plug and socket near the hub, it becomes a 4 wire cable, so you have two wires in parallel for the positive, and two in parallel for the negative. The other end of this four wire cable terminates on 4 separate pins on the 7 way "power plug" that plugs onto the controller. When connecting to a new controller, the 4 wires are connected to just 2 wires coming out of the controller. So at the controller, the red and blue wires from the motor are both connected to the controller positive motor terminal. The green and yellow wires from the motor are both connected to the cotrollers negative motor wire . Is my understanding correct?

russell · May 19, 2012

neptune said:
Hi Russell. This is what I meant when I said in an earlier post that a sustitute controller may not be "plug and play". Bear in mind that I although I have worked in electronics, I have never actually seen one of these controllers, and although I run a Euro, I have had no cause to get the controller out. If you look at the picture of the controller, it has connectors on the ends of the wires. It is hard to tell from the photo, but some of these connectors may be female, or sockets. Equally, they may not be. In that case you will have to remove at least some of these connectors, and replace them with connectors that are compatible with the connectors on the wiring of the bike. If such can not be found , you will have to change the connectors on the bike wiring as well. Note that this controller does not have a pedalec option. Nor does it have a connection for the motion sensor fitted to the rear wheel of your bike, if it is a pre 2002 model . The only down side of this, is that if you switch on the ignition, the bike will pull away from a standstill as soon as you open the throttle. This is bad for the motor and battery, so the way to ride it will be to pedal up to about 4MPH before opening the throttle.
Some of the wires on the controller can remain unused, like the brake cutouts, and the charger wires because you already have a charge socket on your battery . The wires you will have to connect are as follows.
2 motor wires.
2 battery wires.
3 throttle wires.
2 Ignition switch wires.
and if required, 2 wires for the battery level indicator .
So you are looking at changing some connectors and doing some soldering. There are several types of connector that will serve, including automotive bullet connectors, and automotive blade connectors. It is important that you understand what is involved before you commit yourself. It is a shame you don`t live nearer to me. Do not pull any wire off your old controller without carefully making a diagram. If you decide to go ahead, I will give you my phone number via private message . Remove battery from bike before doing any work at all .

Hello again,,,I have taken a look at the faulty controller so that I can understand the one listed on Ebay a little better,,,and after reading your guidance above on what the new controller can and cannot do.
I have just remembered that when I bought the bike years ago second hand there was no sensor on the pedal crank. The chap I bought it off told me that he had been fitted with a new controller previously and also had some kind of link cable that bypassed the sensor which meant I could just get on the bike and turn throttle which I have done since getting the back some years ago until of course I messed everything up when tidying the wiring from the hub up.So that fact that the new controller doesn't have a sensor or movement option doesn't matter...When I can clear my brain a little (I get the old man syndrom when reading all of the technical stuff) I will buy whatever you suggest is best and get on with it,,Summer is on its way...My Powabyke is the 5 gear with pedal sensor and external sockets on the controller,, I understand the old type sensor had the sockets on the inside of the controller case which meant you had to get inside the controller to do anything... I have just seen an original one listed on Ebay at £50,, I dont know if this will be any help to you,,,,,,,,thanks again.

russell · May 19, 2012

neptune said:
@NRG. Thanks for kindly commenting on my statements. I have learned some thing myself here about the need for current limiting.
@Russell. If you decide to buy the controller , buy the throttle from the same supplier , you will get a compatible throttle, which will plug straight into the new controller, and save on postage . Do not order anything without checking dimensions, including handlebar size.If you decide to go for it I will post a step by step guide to wiring up.

Important question. is your bike the model with the motor in the front wheel and 5 speed gears and the motion sensor on the back wheel, left side.

If it is, I will strip out the controller from my bike to have a look what goes where to help me to help you .I will not do this untill you let me know that you are going ahead with the project .

@Stimil. I have not had a look at the bike yet, but trying to grasp the double wiring thing . My understanding is as follows. The cable that leaves the hub is a 2 wire cable. At the plug and socket near the hub, it becomes a 4 wire cable, so you have two wires in parallel for the positive, and two in parallel for the negative. The other end of this four wire cable terminates on 4 separate pins on the 7 way "power plug" that plugs onto the controller. When connecting to a new controller, the 4 wires are connected to just 2 wires coming out of the controller. So at the controller, the red and blue wires from the motor are both connected to the controller positive motor terminal. The green and yellow wires from the motor are both connected to the cotrollers negative motor wire . Is my understanding correct?

Sorry I missed the Ebay listing number for the controller I understand this is an original Powabyke part.. 180878576114

neptune · May 19, 2012

OK Russell. I just took a look at that new type controller on Ebay . There is some info on the Powabyke website about that one . My bike appears to still have the original controller with the motion sensor option, so looking at mine will not help me to help you. If you can, have a look at the controller fitted to your bike. If it is the same as the one on Ebay, it will make life easier , as it will plug straight in [Plug-and-play].

HOWEVER, you will still have to replace the throttle. If you look on the Powabyke website there is a fault finding guide for your bike. It warns that with the fault you have, you MUST replace BOTH throttle and controller, or you will damage the new controller.

If your throttle is a three wire throttle, you may get away with a chinese one. It is you who must make any final decisions, as its your money. I will give you the best advice i can, of course, but I can not be held responsible if the manure hits the fan!

If your existing controller is identical to the one on Ebay , any bypass cable for the sensor will plug straight into the new one. I am feeling tired tonight so I am going to bed, but will be around tomorrow sometime.

stemil · May 19, 2012

Hi All, yes neptune your understanding of the motor wiring is correct.
Russell, we have two Powabyke euros, when the controller burnt out on the blue one I ordered two sets of controllers and throttles, so if you like I will send you the the second unused set which you can have at cost + postage, about 20 quid all in, please let me know and I'll get it in the post on Monday and you can send a cheque off or pay by Paypal or something.
I do not have access to the blue bike at present but going from memory the wiring on the new controller is like so-

Positive from battery double wire to red new controller wire

Negative from ignition switch to new controller black wire (I think from memory it is a switched negative, if not simply swap the wires over to the correct polarity)

Connect the red and blue wires from the motor to the blue wire on the new controller

Connect the green and yellow wires from the motor to the white wire on the new controller

Cut the cable on your old throttle off long enough to sufficiently lengthen the wire on your new throttle,
join this by soldering to your new throttle and shrink tube over each seperate wire to insulate, the colours match on the new throttle to the new controller, ie green/black/red but not on the cable you are using from your old throttle, so make a note of what goes where.

Join the green/black/red throttle wires on the new controller to your newly extended throttle wire by the same method as above.

The black and yellow wires on the new controller are for the brake cut off switch, not used on this bike and sorry I can't remember if they are connected or not to get the controller working, one of the two though.

Finally, disconnect the two black wires fitted with the male and female connectors, this is a speed limiter feature on this controller apparently.

Really to make a neat and secure job you will need to order some of those 3.9mm bullet connectors from ebay.
I will send you some shrink tubing as well if you want the controller as I have loads knocking around.

I have tried to make this as unconfusing as possible hence the constant reference to "new controller" etc, and also so that you can decide if this is a job for you or not.

russell · May 20, 2012

stemil said:
Hi All, yes neptune your understanding of the motor wiring is correct.
Russell, we have two Powabyke euros, when the controller burnt out on the blue one I ordered two sets of controllers and throttles, so if you like I will send you the the second unused set which you can have at cost + postage, about 20 quid all in, please let me know and I'll get it in the post on Monday and you can send a cheque off or pay by Paypal or something.
I do not have access to the blue bike at present but going from memory the wiring on the new controller is like so-

Positive from battery double wire to red new controller wire

Negative from ignition switch to new controller black wire (I think from memory it is a switched negative, if not simply swap the wires over to the correct polarity)

Connect the red and blue wires from the motor to the blue wire on the new controller

Connect the green and yellow wires from the motor to the white wire on the new controller

Cut the cable on your old throttle off long enough to sufficiently lengthen the wire on your new throttle,
join this by soldering to your new throttle and shrink tube over each seperate wire to insulate, the colours match on the new throttle to the new controller, ie green/black/red but not on the cable you are using from your old throttle, so make a note of what goes where.

Join the green/black/red throttle wires on the new controller to your newly extended throttle wire by the same method as above.

The black and yellow wires on the new controller are for the brake cut off switch, not used on this bike and sorry I can't remember if they are connected or not to get the controller working, one of the two though.

Finally, disconnect the two black wires fitted with the male and female connectors, this is a speed limiter feature on this controller apparently.

Really to make a neat and secure job you will need to order some of those 3.9mm bullet connectors from ebay.
I will send you some shrink tubing as well if you want the controller as I have loads knocking around.

I have tried to make this as unconfusing as possible hence the constant reference to "new controller" etc, and also so that you can decide if this is a job for you or not.

View attachment 3658

Goodness me,, I am shocked, I have never known such kindness... I would be very very grateful for the offer and am happy to pay by Paypal if thats ok with you...I would rather pay before you send them, it would make me feel happier. I am convinced that with all the help you and the other contributers have given me I can make a good job of it,do I need to send you a private message with my details on,,,not done that before,,,,thank you again stemil

stemil · May 20, 2012

e-mail sent.

neptune · May 20, 2012

@Stemil. I wonder if the bullet connectors that you recommend and use are fitted
to the wire by crimping, or by soldering.Either way, once you have fitted the bullets to the wires to be joined, you will need the double female connector, for the bullets to fit into.
I would suggest that for those who cannot solder, and dont have a crimping tool, there is another solution, although I realise that it is less than ideal. From retailers that sell household wiring, switches, sockets and so on, you can buy strips of screw connectors.Each connector consists of a brass sleeve with two grub screws, and is encased in a white plastic moulding. Provided that the screws are well tightened, and care is taken that no "whiskers" of wire stick out, these would do the job . They will be out of sight in the controller enclosure. They are available in 5 amp, 15 amp and 30 amp sizes. The fifteen amp size would be best . They cost about £1 a strip. You can cut the connectors off the strip to use singly , or make up multiple connector blocks.

stemil · May 20, 2012

mmm, not very elegant and space is quite limited in the controller housing to allow for lots of individual terminal blocks or even a multiple one.
I crimp then solder the bullet connectors, but that's just me, belt and braces.
Double female is good if you like soldering, not really needed though as twin wires fit OK into a single bullet.

neptune · May 20, 2012

I was not aware that space was that tight. My preferred method in a tight space, is to twist the two wire together, solder, and sleeve.
I may have misunderstood here. Do the wires from the controller have "sockets" on their ends into which you can plug a bullet? If this is the case, then obviously bullets are the best answer.
Also, whatever method is used, it will pay to keep a diagram of all connections, in case wires get pulled apart working in a tight space.

stemil · May 20, 2012

Hi neptune the controller comes fitted with bullets and sockets, bullets on the input, sockets on the output.
If you click on the photo I posted yesterday you should be able to see what's what.

Space is tight enough that you want as much free space as possible when inserting the controller into the fairing, I think that using terminal blocks would make it a fair bit more awkward and potentially less secure.

neptune · May 21, 2012

Hi Stemil. Ok so it seems things are coming together. Be sure to keep us informed of your progress, and if you encounter any problems, we can help. Be sure to check all wiring several times, and do not fit the battery until you are absolutely sure everything is wired up right.
Once you are up and running, you may want to donate your old throttle to science, that is, send it to me so I can take it to bits, see how it works, and gain information for the future. I will pay the postage, if you decide to do so. There is of course no obligation.

neptune · May 21, 2012

Sorry my last post should have been addressed to Russell and not Stemil. Just having a Senior Moment there..,.,

k1ngad · Jul 23, 2019

Swinswin25 said:
pics are now in members gallery under powabyke cog euro i have shown a pic of the wheel with grease in it and yes its loads but thats what it needs, i plan to post more when im re building the bike as to help all if any of the staff want to rearange this blog and pics or post on other sites then please doso as this should get to as many people as poss as ive spent a lot of time and money to get a working bike thats in bits but fingers crossed will be on the road soon LOL.....

Hi Paul , I dont suppose you still have the pics of the " powabyke cog euro " by any chance ....looked everywhere.
Thanks,
Tony

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