Hi Flecc. I've read with interest your contributions to this forum. I've posted a few myself re my old Wisper 905e and other things. I'm considering buying a Kalkhoff Agattu with a crossbar (for a child seat). I read your review of the bike and it sounds very much like what I want ...ie no throttle, pedal-assisted, light and with a range of 20 miles +. Also, unlike the Pro-Connect, with at least a bit of front suspension to smooth things out on canal paths and similar. However this morning, I was talking to a retailer (who does not stock Kalkhoff). Whilst he praised the design and efficiency of the Panasonic motor and battery, he said that owners of Giant and other makes that used this motor were left 'high and dry' by the manufacturers re spares. Apparently they left the spares side of things in the hands of only one importer who then promptly screwed everyone on prices... Is this correct, do you know? I'm wondering what would happen if the motor or battery needs attention, only to find no backup. Could you share any experience you have on this please?
Question for Flecc
- Thread starter jimmyengland1000
- Start date
That wasn't quite accurate on the Giant bikes. The support was there during the life of the bikes, and still is for batteries and anything still under warranty. The problem was with the motor unit. This is designed as a sealed for life item, and if anything went wrong with it, that meant a replacement unit at about £450 recently.
However, they were extremely reliable due to their quality, so very few did fail, and any that did under warranty were replaced anyway. The very few faults were of course known, and the new unit has been redesigned with all the necessary improvements.
Of course a failure is always possible anyway, regardless of improvements, and again that could mean replacement, but judging by the small previous incidence and the improvements that have been made, the risk is so low now I'd personally have no qualms. After all, I had a Giant Twist for over four years which is now owned by aaannndddyyy, a forum member, with it's second battery owned by another forum member, Alan Terrill, and still going strong as far as I know and heading for 5 years old.
The Panasonic units, their spare replacement sprockets and the batteries will be available from 50cycles of course, but since they are also used on the BikeTech Flyer models, they have two other sources in the UK, plus others in Europe such as Raleigh in Germany in addition to Kalkhoff, Biketech, and their European dealers.
An example. When Giant ran out of the 14 tooth sprockets for the old Panasonic unit, I contacted Leonardo, an Italian member of this forum and also a Giant twist rider, and he kindly found an English speaking French dealer who could supply them to us in the UK. Expensive, but at least they are available.
So in summary, a risk exists, but no greater than for any other imported bike or motor, and possibly less, since these Panasonic units are widely used.
The newer Li-ion batteries won't last as long as the NiMh in the older models, but they have a 2 year warranty which is reassuring. I wouldn't expect them to last much longer than that though, but time will tell.
.
However, they were extremely reliable due to their quality, so very few did fail, and any that did under warranty were replaced anyway. The very few faults were of course known, and the new unit has been redesigned with all the necessary improvements.
Of course a failure is always possible anyway, regardless of improvements, and again that could mean replacement, but judging by the small previous incidence and the improvements that have been made, the risk is so low now I'd personally have no qualms. After all, I had a Giant Twist for over four years which is now owned by aaannndddyyy, a forum member, with it's second battery owned by another forum member, Alan Terrill, and still going strong as far as I know and heading for 5 years old.
The Panasonic units, their spare replacement sprockets and the batteries will be available from 50cycles of course, but since they are also used on the BikeTech Flyer models, they have two other sources in the UK, plus others in Europe such as Raleigh in Germany in addition to Kalkhoff, Biketech, and their European dealers.
An example. When Giant ran out of the 14 tooth sprockets for the old Panasonic unit, I contacted Leonardo, an Italian member of this forum and also a Giant twist rider, and he kindly found an English speaking French dealer who could supply them to us in the UK. Expensive, but at least they are available.
So in summary, a risk exists, but no greater than for any other imported bike or motor, and possibly less, since these Panasonic units are widely used.
The newer Li-ion batteries won't last as long as the NiMh in the older models, but they have a 2 year warranty which is reassuring. I wouldn't expect them to last much longer than that though, but time will tell.
.
Yes Flecc still going strong
very happy with it using it avery day at the moment as the controller of my Ezee sprint has dyed, (my own fault putting to many volts though it ) trying to get a replacement but Ezee are not replying my emails at the moment
very happy with it using it avery day at the moment as the controller of my Ezee sprint has dyed, (my own fault putting to many volts though it ) trying to get a replacement but Ezee are not replying my emails at the moment Hey, Flecc, it just occurred to me to ask, can the newer panasonic unit on the Kalkhoff be fitted in my Lafree frame without too much modification?
thanks
The short answer is that I don't know. I didn't strip down all the casings of the review bike as it's a fairly extensive operation, and I'd have to remove the lot to check all the mounting spacings and angular relationships.
In fact it looks as though the three main mounting points are in exactly the same positions, so it should be possible either without modification or with minimal alterations to the frame mountings. At a guess, the battery would also just fit in, but I think it's fixed top carry handle might need to be cut off to squeeze into the reduced height of the Lafree frame at that point.
As it would need the motor unit complete, all the casings and the control and wiring, plus the battery, it would be a very expensive operation though, possibly £900 or more to buy all those as spares. The battery alone is £306. As you may know, to buy all the parts for a £12000 car costs at least £30000 when bought as spares, due to packaging, handling, transit, storage and administrative costs.
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In fact it looks as though the three main mounting points are in exactly the same positions, so it should be possible either without modification or with minimal alterations to the frame mountings. At a guess, the battery would also just fit in, but I think it's fixed top carry handle might need to be cut off to squeeze into the reduced height of the Lafree frame at that point.
As it would need the motor unit complete, all the casings and the control and wiring, plus the battery, it would be a very expensive operation though, possibly £900 or more to buy all those as spares. The battery alone is £306. As you may know, to buy all the parts for a £12000 car costs at least £30000 when bought as spares, due to packaging, handling, transit, storage and administrative costs.
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Thanks for all the info. After balancing up all the excellent info on this forum, I ordered one of the diamond frame Kalkhoff Agattu bikes from 50Cycles this morning. They reckon it should be here in the not too distant future.
Me too! They reckon sometime towards the end of January for delivery. Reading your review of the Agattu certainly helped me make a decision. Long-distance, quiet rides with pedalling input from me is what I'm after. Using a throttle is not where it's at for me. This was one of the downsides of the Heinzmann retro-fit kit I had, also the whine of the motor. I found it used a lot of battery power and being obsessed re how much throttle I was using spoiled my ride. Also, for some reason, I found it hard to pedal and twist at the same time. So, I would guess that the Agattu will do what I want.... I hope.....
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