Raleigh are increasing prices by 10% as from August 1.

[Kudoscycles]

Respect here too, Dave.

It's a simple matter of fact you will have forgotten more about running an ebike business than I will ever know.

My simple point is the business landscape may be changing, so an import and resale model that worked (for those who knew how to do it) previously, may not work in future.

That may be true for the performance parts world but that is constantly evolving,HMRC don't have a solution for the hundreds of fraudulent sellers on e-bay and Amazon,who are selling £ billions of product into the UK without charging duty or vat.
At the moment it is very competitive and we are all invading competitors products,high street sellers must be struggling,it's all about low overhead on-line selling.
I am still a newbie to the e-bike world and constantly learning,surprisingly its a fashion conscious product,not just in colour but also spec and type,it's easy to get caught out and have the wrong product at the wrong time of year.
Ford motor Co is building the largest car assembly plant in the world,I think it is in Nanjing,they are even building bespoke ships to move Fiestas and Focuses around the world,they still make engines in the UK but I suspect that Brexit will finish that.
KudosDave

 

[RobF]

Hi Rob,

Unfortunately unless the £ recovers and we get back to the status quo, for the next few years I think it's more likely that we in the UK will just be poorer and will not be able to afford what we could in the past.

It's unlikely that the import of goods will end anytime soon.

All the best, David

Not being able to afford what we could in the past may well happen.

But the positive side of that is it equates to unsatisfied demand - people will still want what they used to be able to afford.

Unsatisfied demand is a sales opportunity.

The question is how to fill that demand at a price the customer can afford.

If my dream R&M ebike goes from ludicrously expensive to completely unaffordable, there is an opportunity there for someone to supply me with a dream ebike at a price I can afford.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Rob,

We are currently working with Riese and Müller to find a way of reducing prices to pre Brexit or there abouts.

On a brighter note (for me!) I have seen the 2017 bikes, they are amazing. They will be available from Monday. Top of the range RM bikes are moving to over €7,000, (New Delite with 2 X 500Wh batteries) a long way short of the most expensive on the market, but if you want an individually hand made bike built to your specifications, they don't get much better.

All the best, David

 

[trex]

something tells me that everyone gets less for their money until the next general election when this comedy is going to be reversed.

 

[Crockers]

Hi Rob,

We are currently working with Riese and Müller to find a way of reducing prices to pre Brexit or there abouts.

On a brighter note (for me!) I have seen the 2017 bikes, they are amazing. They will be available from Monday. Top of the range RM bikes are moving to over €7,000, (New Delite with 2 X 500Wh batteries) a long way short of the most expensive on the market, but if you want an individually hand made bike built to your specifications, they don't get much better.

All the best, David

Anything with inter grated battery?

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I post on Monday when I get all the details.

All the best, David

 

[Yamdude]

Gawd..... I see the poverty stricken dealers are still claiming what little money they make. Maybe we should have a whip round for em.

I've been around the block too many times to take at face value anything a salesman says..... and you dealers are salesmen, you're only on this forum to flog your products.
I hear BS from sales people all the time..... My car & m/c insurance goes up by £50 to £70 every year and they have all sorts of reasons why this is so. But when i tell them i can get it elsewhere cheaper, all of a sudden they can miraculously do for the same price as last year.
When i buy my cars & motorcycles, the salesmen claim its the best deal i'll ever get..... after searching round and then haggling, all of a sudden i get thousands off..... and i can guarantee they're still making good profit.

You dealers are like any other business, you're looking to max your profits any way possible and i totally believe that some have raised prices by more than the pound has dropped and i also totally believe that some have made those price hikes even on stuff that was bought at the old rate.

So save the 'poor us' stories for those naive enough to believe it.

 

[flecc]

Gawd..... I see the poverty stricken dealers are still claiming what little money they make. Maybe we should have a whip round for em.

Too cynical Yamdude. In my experience none of them who exclusively sell e-bikes in the UK are driving luxury cars or are wealthy. I've seen a long convoy of them fail over the years despite often good product. Generally they've been the victims of combinations of our small market, the excess of competition relative to that market, the long winter period and the UK.s climate variability.

Some only get going and/or survive due to being part of a much larger profitable organisation. Kudos for example is linked to Dave's successful Rallye Design motor sport company, and Powacycle are part of Akhter Computers, a major supplier of IT systems to the education sector.

Both make very much more from their other businesses than the e-bike side.

And even the big boys struggle. Giant, when they were the largest bicycle company in the world in the early 2000s had to stop making the successful Lafree series since after six years of trying they failed make any profit. So they tried downmarket and failed again, finally settling on cheaper to make but higher price e-bikes.
.

 

[Yamdude]

Too cynical Yamdude. In my experience none of them who exclusively sell e-bikes in the UK are driving luxury cars or are wealthy. I've seen a long convoy of them fail over the years despite often good product, Generally they've been the victims of combinations of our small market, the excess of competition relative to that market, the long winter period and the UK.s climate variability.

Some only get going and/or survive due to being part of a much larger profitable organisation. Kudos for example is linked to Dave's successful Rallye Design motor sport company, and Powacycle are part of Akhter Computers, a major supplier of IT systems to the education sector.

Both make very much more from their other businesses than the e-bike side.
.

Well i am cynical about salesman and businesses in general...... some are better than others, but thats about the best i can say.
No one on here is going to change my mind about that.

 

[anotherkiwi]

The cycling nation bikes are from 1000 € to 9000 € because their market, Europe, is bigger. Where are the Chinese made "UK" bikes at my LBS? I think your bikes are too similar. You are all fighting for the same market segment with unoriginal products and aiming for the same price point. And limiting your market and ambitions to your tiny little island and not Europe which you are supposed to belong to still...

 

[flecc]

Well i am cynical about salesman and businesses in general...... some are better than others, but thats about the best i can say.
No one on here is going to change my mind about that.

So am I cynical about business in general, unsurprising for someone who knows the motor trade in depth from the inside!

I was just illustrating what I know about the e-bike business over the years, and in consequence I would never get into it. There are easier and much less risky ways to make money.
.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Well i am cynical about salesman and businesses in general...... some are better than others, but thats about the best i can say.
No one on here is going to change my mind about that.

Without salesmen and business men we would all still be living in mud huts. Look around you, everything you own is due to the hard work of businessmen and salesmen throughout the ages.

I assume that you have a Yamaha? In that case you must understand the huge difference sales and businessmen have made to better your life. Without them Yamaha would never have existed and without your phone/tablet/lap top you would not have the means to make your views public.

We are not all choir boys I agree, but everyone is free to make informed decisions about who they buy their goods from.

You say that "no one is going to change your mind" so I understand you will never accept the reality of the situation, I won't try to change your mind again.

No hard feelings!

Kind regards, David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Trex we have seriously over taken the magic number. Our components are sourced from all over Asia. Most bikes built in China use generic frames and drive systems that are available to anyone.

There is another way, our 905 and 705 frames and solid forks are ours, designed and tooled by Amps, our software is ours and even our EN15194 certification is ours.

Most bikes comming in from China share genetic certification, a huge percentage of those bikes are not properly certified. A real worry for those who retail them.

There are a few of us do it properly and offer somthing completely different and a little bit special.

I am certain the Market is much bigger than 30,000, we cannot be responsible for such a substantial percentage of U.K. Ebike sales!

It's still tough out there!

 

[trex]

the market in France was 35,000 in 2014 and there are even more dealers there than in the UK. You are one of the veterans of the industry and your bikes always strike me as very well thought out, so I am not surprised that you go over the magic number. For a proper e-bike manufacturer, what are we talking about? sales of 5,000 + units a year? that only employs about 20 people. That's the nature of cottage industries.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks Trex, we are not up to 5000 yet but are gradually getting there. We are certainly a cottage industry!

All the best, David

 

[Crockers]

Thanks Trex, we are not up to 5000 yet but are gradually getting there. We are certainly a cottage industry!

All the best, David

David
I'm getting worried about Wisper. Firstly you take in boarders now you're cottaging.
Keep up the good work.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

David
I'm getting worried about Wisper. Firstly you take in boarders now you're cottaging.
Keep up the good work.

We have to make money wherever and however we can Trex!!

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

We have the likes of KTM Col - a bike guy - in regular contact with a broker and checking exchange rates to, wait for it, eight decimal places.

Ludicrous - you are supposed to be entrepreneurs, not currency speculators.

I'm not sure what part of understanding the important aspects of my own business you think is ludicrous?

Selling KTM's to the bike trade is a portion of our business. We distribute other brands, which we buy in and sell.

So the exchange rate is crucial. If we don't keep track of it, we can end up working hard for a loss, or equally over charging for products which we could reduce and possibly sell more of.

We don't work on big margins, so when our cost price jumps by 10% we have to keep a close eye on things. This isn't ludicrous, its vital to sustaining a business in these challenging times, and its only going to get worse.

 

[Crockers]

Its not me....who buys currency for holidays etc. Get it badly wrong and I lose a bottle of wine. Get it wrong in a large transaction and you can wipe out months of profits.

 

[RobF]

I'm not sure what part of understanding the important aspects of my own business you think is ludicrous?

Selling KTM's to the bike trade is a portion of our business. We distribute other brands, which we buy in and sell.

So the exchange rate is crucial. If we don't keep track of it, we can end up working hard for a loss, or equally over charging for products which we could reduce and possibly sell more of.

We don't work on big margins, so when our cost price jumps by 10% we have to keep a close eye on things. This isn't ludicrous, its vital to sustaining a business in these challenging times, and its only going to get worse.

The point is none of the above has anything to do with bicycles.

You could be trading anything.

Bike people in your business are a waste of time, what you want is glorified Del Boys.

I'm not criticising you for running the business that way, it's partially a result of the global manufacturing economy.

But you have chosen to operate in a fast-moving and volatile area - currency speculation.

Inevitably, unless you are very, very, sharp, you will get your fingers burnt now and again.

Blaming Brexit all the time merely demonstrates that among currency speculators you are a boy amongst men.