Suzhou Bafang Motor compare to Tongxin Motor

[semmel]

Hello,

i read in this forum about this small and lightweight tonxin (nano) motor. I found out that there is another small and lightweight motor from Suzhou Bafang Motor Science Co. LTD.:
Suzhou Bafang Motor Science Co.,Ltd.
Electric bike motor, Electric Bicycle motor,Shanghai Maxbright Industry Co.,Ltd.
Suzhou Bafang Motor Science Co.,Ltd.
...

Tongxin:
CHINA HANGZHOU ZHEDA TONGXIN ELECTRIC CO,. LTD.

What i found out: Both motors are 2,5kg in wight, both are brushless, both has a planetary gear..

Who knows more about the Suzhou Bafang Motor ?
Torque at low RPM ? efficiency ? Reliability ?
Other differences to Tongxin ?
Recommendable or not ?

Luke

 

[flecc]

I think the Suzhou EBM02 is the motor used in the eZee Torq and Quando models, in both front and rear wheel forms. They do use planetary gears. If this is the eZee one, it's far more powerful than the Tongxin Nano.

The Tongxin motor doesn't use planetary gears, instead it has a planetary roller drive relying on steel on steel friction to avoid slipping.
.

 

[Ian]

I concur with Flecc, the motor looks identical to that used in the Torq/Quando, even down to the cable exit and format of the serial number. It's is larger than the Tonxgin, measuring approx 140mm dia across the flanges, and approx 115 wide across the locknuts, that is assuming it's the same as the original Ezee motor.

 

[WaiWonChing]

Hi,

eZee has stopped using the 8Fun or SuZhou Ba Fang motor as it known on our new models of the Torq, and we have now a brand new motor made exclusively ourselves and as with our controller. Does anyone know about this, should be on the Forum soon as suppose. But OK, let me contribute some information here.

The 8Fun motor is 3.05 kgs and not 2.5 kgs.

The Tongxin motor has appeared in a lot of new e-bikes pedelec or otherwise.
I must say it is pretty looking, but that is about all it is good at.
We have tested it when it first appeared 3 years old, and we write it off.
OK, how far you you think this motor will go ?

There was this event we participated in, a ride of 1200 km from Melbourne to Sydney in 9 days. and it was originally sponsored by Schwinn, and we know nothing about it until a few weeks before the event when I received an urgent phone call to sponsor the event. It was wise they figured out that this bike (with the Schwinn motor and Protanium? battery) is not going to make it. So we contributed with some Torqs, Sprints, and Cadence, and ONE Schwinn came along and it was subject to extensive repairs all along the way, and all cross the finishing line, except the Schwinn with the Nano TongXin motor in full human mode.

My distributor in for Canada also took in some TongXin motor, before we met in Vancouver this Spring 2007. I don't think he is going to import it anymore.

I just visited my new distributor in NL last week, E-Bike Centrum, de elektrische fietsenzaak van Nederland, Belgie en Duitsland. , he just have returned a batch of 12 Schwinn bikes to the supplier and don't want to see them anymore. By the way over the past years before he started selling bikes this year, we was organising tests for pedelecs and write about them in the dutch bike magazine each year.

Now back to 8Fun motor, we still use them on the Quando but obviously our new motor that appears on all our other models now - Torq, Sprint, Forte, Forza with option for Disc brake mounts are in many ways a lot better. More details to follow.

W W Ching

 

[flecc]

Thanks for that information Mr Ching, I've long been of the opinion that the Tongxin motor was suspect and has a flawed drive design.

We were told of your new high torque motor, but there's little wrong with the 8fun Quando motor anyway. Tim Snaith of 50cycles tried my Q bike (Quando with gears etc) for the first time the other day and liked it's performance. He then saw me stop up a 22% (1 in 4.5) hill and then do a standing start and accelerate with ease while sitting on the saddle and speaking to him. I've even climbed a short 30% (1 in 3.3) with it.

If you ever have the spare capacity to make the Quando with gears, you'd have the uncontested champion hill climbing e-bike, and there's a big market in our hilly areas for that sort of bike.
.

 

[Ian]

I read a blog of the Melbourne-Sydney run, from what I remember everyone was keen to ride the Schwinn, no doubt due to the hype surrounding it, but few people got a chance due to the time it spent undergoing repairs. I didn't realise the so called "protanium" motor was the Tongxin, it makes sense now though, given the small size of it.

I have a Tongxin it the back of my garage, it's denstined to become the generator for a portable wind turbine, when I get round to it.

 

[flecc]

I have a Tongxin it the back of my garage, it's denstined to become the generator for a portable wind turbine, when I get round to it.

That's great use for it Ian, smooth power takeups with wind drive shouldn't cause that roller drive any problems.

Re: the Schwinn, I somehow doubt it will ever be fit for market. Even if they do sort out the control problems, high gearing that roller drive in a 28" wheel with 36 volt power is always going to cause it to slip increasingly until failure.
.

 

[allotmenteer]

I think the Suzhou EBM02 is the motor used in the eZee Torq and Quando models, in both front and rear wheel forms.
.

I've got the same motor then. Mine had an 8Fun marking on it. It's a good motor, very powerful at 36V. Don't bother with 24V though as it's gutless.

 

[Ian]

Strangely, while the photo of the EBM2 looks identical to the Torq motor, the scale drawing looks different and and the dimensions show a larger diameter. 178mm pcd for the spoke holes as opposed to about 135mm on the Torq.

 

[flecc]

As Wai Won said, they don't use the 8fun now, except in the Quando, so perhaps the spec has changed Ian. I don't remember him saying the source of the new Torq motor, just it was their own, so perhaps that same company are making it for them.
.

 

[Ian]

The drawings are mixed up, the EBM03 has a drawing which belongs to the 02.
I blame the confusion on Chinese website designers

 

[flecc]

The drawings are mixed up, the EBM03 has a drawing which belongs to the 02.
I blame the confusion on Chinese website designers

Thanks Ian, everything they do is full of pitfalls, a bit like their random colour coding!
.

 

[WaiWonChing]

The motor we use on all the eZee bikes is now produced in house, with the exception of the Quando which is 8Fun. '8' in chinese in "Ba". The 8Fun motor is of course not bad and it has brought some level of success for us when it was used in the Torq. As you all realised the Torq is highly gear and meant for speed, and the style generally for more athletic person that when he hits a grade he would be strong enough for power augmentation.

As anyone with experience with industrial equipment will know, if the electric motor would to start with a high load assuming all the electrical protections are in and working well, those noise and vibrations are always worrying. A lot of time customers trying out the Torq would ask about it. This is one issue I overcome by using this new motor.

The next matter is that, competition comes to know about the 8Fun motor and uses it, I have to move one or more steps ahead.

Then, the motor alone does not determine the performance of the bike. The motor is the heart but the controller is the brain. The controller on eZee is again entirely our own, although manufacturing is out sourced.

Wai Won

 

[prState]

The next matter is that, competition comes to know about the 8Fun motor and uses it, I have to move one or more steps ahead.

I remember Flecc saying this was open source for the taking, so I thought I'd link it.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/654-light-fastest-climbs-mountains-pretty-efficient-4.html#post8918

 

[ITSPETEINIT]

eZee Torq Publicity

The motor we use on all the eZee bikes is now produced in house, with the exception of the Quando which is 8Fun. '8' in chinese in "Ba". The 8Fun motor is of course not bad and it has brought some level of success for us when it was used in the Torq. As you all realised the Torq is highly gear and meant for speed, and the style generally for more athletic person that when he hits a grade he would be strong enough for power augmentation.

Wai Won

As we, who bought a Torq, came to realise....
Why was the Torq not publicised with these interesting and, for some would be riders, crucial facts concerning their performance and the amount of energy that was required to get them to do so?
"Highly geared"......"meant for speed".... "for more athletic person"..."he would be strong enough".
I don't recall any of those caveats on the 50Cycles web site written in praise of the Torq. All there was, apart from the detailed technical specification and that was vague in arguably the most important detail, was a glorification of what it achieved at the 2006 Presteigne 'Rally' and even then I had to write (e-mail) to David Henshaw of AtoB after I had bought a Torq to understand why my Torq performed so differently from the two that were ridden in that 'rally' and reported upon. It was revealed that it was an unrestricted pre-production model not legal to be ridden on the roads in the UK.
Quote from 50Cycles website that is still published:
"Winning rider David Henshaw (left, lifting the trophy) of A to B magazine rode the Torq around the course with steely determination, completing 23 laps and a total distance of 22.06 miles, with a top speed of 25.3 mph on the home straight. Far from being a souped-up model, the winning bikes were regular Torqs, identical to those used by customers up and down the UK.

Ken Ching (pictured right), from eZee, travelled from Germany to attend the event and took third place on our second Torq. While David lead the pack from the front, Ken took a more tactical approach, climbing through the rankings as the rally progressed and other machines faded, before storming to the front on the last few laps.

Even Ken Ching was involved.
Peter

 

[Tiberius]

Pete,

You are quite right; the information about how the Torq compares with others and the market its suited for was not well presented. But this forum was very useful for me and did explain it.

I am also very pleased to see you joining in, Mr Ching.

Nick

 

[semmel]

Mr. Wai Won where can i buy your drive system for my recumbent bike?

Hello Mr. Wai Won,

thank you Mr. Wai Won for the Information about the motor.

I am cycling with recumbent bikes and like to attach an elektric system to the recumbent bike. So i am searching for drive systems which can be bought without buying the whole bike.
If an e-bike has interesting performance then it is often not possible to buy the electric drive system (motor+controller+needed accessories).
A sample: I have not found a possibility to buy the panasonic drive system (the system is in flyer or kalkhoff bikes).

Mr Wai Won you talk about your new motor and your new controller. Very interesting to hear but ... is this drive system available to buy for me (and if i am successfully my recumbent bike friends will have that system too)

Luke

 

[WaiWonChing]

Luke,

Pls write to me at ezeebike@gmail.com

W W

 

[WaiWonChing]

Peter,

The eZee Torqs used in the Presteigne event were normal regular production units. In those it was possible to remove a connection and de-restrict the speed limit for the motor. At this time I hope everyone should reserve their judgment and not take all these essays from test ride commentors even if they are the most honest genuine experts as universal truth. Every one has their bias to some degree. Example, I have great respect for David Henshaw AtoB, but when I read his report for the Brompton and Nano motor, I have to shake my head in grief, the Nano TongXin motor and small battery pack almost becomes a miracle, simply because he has such great love for the Brompton. I don't blame him, he is just writing what he believed in. The same with all those comments on the Kalhoff, those who have an affair with the Giant Lafree Twist Comfort or what-ever will still thinks the power is incredible but really the power and range is coming from their legs and their mind set to it.

W W Ching

 

[fishingpaul]

if the power is from their legs,surely this is a good thing,i for one, want assistance to my own power, mainly for steep hills.if a cyclist just wants power and speed, then a scooter or motorbike is a better way, of acheiving this.