The bike range question

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Celedep

The whole LiFePo4 question is very interesting, we have been testing them off and on for years. We still have two major problems, weight and volume. We tend to go for high quality, high power light weight batteries as this has become a bit of a trade mark for Wisper over the years. We simply cant get the power we need into our battery case due to the volume and they are so much heavier. If you couple to this the fact that we have many bikes on the road that are several years old with their original (now quite old tech) batteries we fail to see the need to change.

All the best

David

 

[flecc]

On paper it appears that the new LifePo4 is better for longevity and the bikes I have been considering mostly have these new batteries. Does anybody have some long term use of the LiFePo4 type and are they really a better choice?

We have a number on members who bought Ping lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries and have now substantially exceeded two years, mainly with no appreciable loss of range. Since a proportion of them are only intermittent users, not too much can be read into that, but it does appear they do not self-deteriorate chemically to any real extent in the way earlier li-ion types did.

 

[eBikes London Support]

Take ALL claims with a pinch of salt IMHO
have fun
Dermot

 

[Genesis750]

secondhand proconnect. brill

 

[steveindenmark]

I do a 43km round trip every day on a hilly route and it is no problem at all. I average about 23kph for the ride.

I ride a Tonaro Enduro and have had it for 3 weeks. The difference in my commute is huge. I used to do the ride on my Trek Lexa SL racing bike but it was a hard slog and took just under the hour. I can now do it on the Enduro in 45 minutes and it like a stroll in the park.

I use medium assist most of the time and a couple of bursts of high assist. I believe I can get between 60 and 70km out of a full battery, the way I ride. But that will vary from person to person.

The Enduro has a crank motor and so if the power does run out I can pedal it.

Great bike and have just ordered the Tonaro Compy for my girlfriend.

Steve

 

[bazwaldo]

Hi, I have been using my Bearprint New City 505 with the 36V 16AH battery to commute to work 5 days a week since last October. The distance is about 26 miles round trip and I do it on 1 charge. So far I yesterday brought up 3800 miles total and I still have 2 of 4 lights on the power metre on the handlebar when I return home. I have posted a review with several photos in the review section.
All the great feedback on the Tonaro bikes make me wonder how my commute would be if I had bought one of those! My Bearprint definitely has drag when pedalling with no power whereas reports say the Tonaro's do not suffer from this and are also better hill climbers - all benefits of their crank drive.

Barry.

 

[Straylight]

If you couple to this the fact that we have many bikes on the road that are several years old with their original (now quite old tech) batteries we fail to see the need to change.

I agree with you David, as the 14ah battery that came with my bike has now done nearly 5000 miles over 2 1/2 years, and still feels like it's working in perfect harmony with the machine. IE it rarely feels like I'm asking too much of it, and I've not noticed a drop in capacity.

Of course, there are mitigating factors, I rarely run it below 50% (according to the handlebar lights), and I suppose I must use the available power more intelligently now than when I first got it. My average journey is around 12 miles BTW.

 

[eddieo]

I was 18 stone now 16...far from fit and wisper 905 and 705 used to do 40 miles easy if you peddle.....

The wisper bikes are great workhorses with excellent support when things go wrong.

 

[mike killay]

Could there be a difference caused by the way the pedelec works? Unlike sophisticated systems such as Panasonic with their torque sensors, the Tonaro simply has a plate with magnets on passing a sensor. This sensor is either on or off, no matching the output to the input. In practice, this is not a problem for the rider because of the three level assist switch.

 

[steveindenmark]

This is a post I put on here a while ago. It is my girlfriend riding my Enduro without power.

I ride it like this whenever I can to extend the range and to get the exercise. I usually have it in 4th or 5th gear on the flat as I like to spin a bit.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/8999-tonaro-enduro-without-power-video.html

Click on the Youtube link in my original post.

Steve

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Could there be a difference caused by the way the pedelec works? Unlike sophisticated systems such as Panasonic with their torque sensors, the Tonaro simply has a plate with magnets on passing a sensor. This sensor is either on or off, no matching the output to the input. In practice, this is not a problem for the rider because of the three level assist switch.

I am in absolute agreement with you Mike with several levels of assistance and the use of a throttle to fine tune power control and override the power assistance setting. This system is far more flexible than a torque sensor that ignores the fitness of the rider. It enables the rider to choose exactly the amount of assistance they require for their personal circumstances.

I liken the two systems to Old fashioned Automatic and the more nimble Manual gearing for cars.

All the best

David

 

[NRG]

I dont agree. A system like the Panasonic gives true power control using the torque sensor and it has 3 switchable levels of power assistance. With the system you describe you have three levels of speed assistance, its not possible to select the top speed setting and just pedal around slowly in a relaxed manner unless you use the throttle. Using the pedelec sensor means the three settings effectively become three minimum speed settings, you have no control over 'power'.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Interesting view Nigel, I have ridden a Panasonic and find it amazingly lacking in control, although I do admittedly need more power control than a fitter rider . I am not certain about whether only having three levels of assistance would make a difference as we have seven on most of our bikes now. Maybe the effect of fewer assistance settings is not as good but I would not think it would matter terribly.

The reason I am convinced the throttle control is better than crank systems is, as I have already indicated, the rider has 100% control of the power available and chooses exactly how much they need depending on health, weight, how energetic they feel and road conditions. That is true power control.

All the best

David

 

[NRG]

David, thats speed control The throttle input is a motor voltage control not a power control it does not control the current delivery to the motor...

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I understand Nigel However, when I get to a hill and open the throttle it increases the ability of the bike to pull me up. I would call that power control. I think the main point is that power or hill climbing ability is more adjustable on a bike equipped with a throttle than a torque sensor?

All the best, David

 

[flecc]

I do like the crank systems like the Panasonic but also throttle controlled hub motor bikes. They each have certain advantages, but they haven't proved to be very interchangeable. Torque sensors generally work extremely well on crank drives, but few torque sensors on hub motor bikes have been entirely satisfactory.

Conversely, throttles seem better suited to hub motors with their generally somewhat higher power ratings available to manipulate. Using the same approach on a crank drive of a continuous drive full throttle possibility isn't really compatible with long lasting bike transmission and is unnecessary, given how well suited they are to torque sensors.

For a long time I had both crank and hub motor bikes and freely used both, never at any time feeling any problems with the either usage when solo leisure riding or heavy hauling with a large trailer. The only reason I don't have both still is lack of space to put them.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I am sure you are right Tony, I suppose it is also a case of what we all get used to!

All the best David

 

[flecc]

Enlarging on what I posted above, if I'm in the most difficult confined traffic situations such as trickling through very narrow spaces among cars on a traffic lights approach, I prefer to have a throttle. With adequate power this gives fine control and the option not to pedal when there's little room and very low speed balance is important.

When leisure riding over distance such as in the countryside, I prefer a crank drive and torque sensor any time for the way it looks after all the requirements for me, saving me having to hold a throttle and constantly adjust for what I want.

So I guess this is another way of expressing your analogy of automatic against manual David, "horses for courses".

 

[Mussels]

If I was to get a bike for my commute (fair weather only) I would need 16 miles each way. Is there anybody that does this distance day in day out and what bike are you using. I am a bit lost with all the battery power ratings etc... So wondering if there was available a sub £1000 bike that would do what I need. I can charge it at work, so no need to do both ways on one charge. A few hills but nothing shocking.
I am also looking at the cycle to work scheme and have asked my company if we can set it up, does it really chop the cost of the bike enough to make it all worth while?
Thanks in advance.

I do that sort of mileage and in a nutshell I found:
A 14AH battery is capable of getting me there and back - as well as not stressing the battery too much it's useful for when you forget to take the charger with you.
A hub geared bike requires much less maintenance than derailers, chainguards and mudguards help there as well.
Forget power assist levels, you're riding a long way to get to work and back and don't want to waste time so you'll have it on maximum assist all the time no matter how much effort you are putting in yourself.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I agree Tony, the throttle should only be used for fine adjustment. we have seven levels of assist on most of our bikes now 0, 20, 40, 60, 80, 90, and 100%, the throttle is only now needed for small adjustment whist cruising or big boosts if an when needed.

All the best

David