Thinking of getting bike

JohnCade

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 16, 2014
1,486
736
The internet is your friend. I live over 50 miles from the nearest city. Not even a big city either.

Woosh will do you a good bike for the money, and I think you can send it back if you don't like it as long as you're quick. Ask Hattie. Woosh are pretty good and will sort things out if they go wrong. They'll pay to ship the bike back if it has to go back in the first month or so.
 

Kerry

Pedelecer
Sep 4, 2014
53
7
60
UK
The internet is your friend. I live over 50 miles from the nearest city. Not even a big city either.

Woosh will do you a good bike for the money, and I think you can send it back if you don't like it as long as you're quick. Ask Hattie. Woosh are pretty good and will sort things out if they go wrong. They'll pay to ship the bike back if it has to go back in the first month or so.

If it occurs after the first month I will then end up with the costs of transporting it. For people who are mechanically minded broken spokes, pedals, etc might not be a problem but for me they would be.
 

JohnCade

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 16, 2014
1,486
736
It'll probably never happen. But simple bike stuff can be fixed by any bike shop, and it would be the same for any make. Spokes can get broken because of potholes and you can't expect the company to cover you for that. I sent an e bike by City Link using Parcelmonkey for £15 or so the other month.
 

PzPhil

Finding my (electric) wheels
Aug 19, 2014
20
5
60
The internet is your friend. I live over 50 miles from the nearest city. Not even a big city either.
Kerry probably lives not too far from a city. However, it's St Davids, which is a teeming metropolis only in relative terms.

The advice on here is often to "try before you buy", but for many of us Bob's assertion that "There are specialist electric bike shops all over the country now" doesn't translate to "There's one near to me". I might be able to get to Bike Higher in 2 hours on a good day, and I'm fortunate enough to have my own transport to take me. I'm also pretty handy with tools, but I can see from Kerry's point of view there's quite a step of faith to take that any problems can be sorted out in a timely and inexpensive way.
 

JohnCade

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 16, 2014
1,486
736
St Davids is a little under 50 miles from me but I didn't count that...

I think Kerry lives in the other end of Wales.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
Woosh are one of the best. If you have a genuine complaint, they'll move heaven and earth to help you. People do some daft things when they get their bikes and they sometimes complain about the daftest things. Those points above are just to try and keep it sensible. They have this as well:
"A refund can be offered within 14 days from the date you receive your bike if you are not satisfied and the bike is undamaged. "
 

Kerry

Pedelecer
Sep 4, 2014
53
7
60
UK
Thanks for everyone responses. What I don't like about Woosh is the 28 day warranty on many parts. That gives me the impression that they know some bits are prone to going wrong so they don't give the twelve month warranty on them. I also thought that legally a product had to be fit for purpose and also had to have a full twelve month warranty. I can understand the brake pads not being covered but things like peddles and spokes?

What are people's thoughts on Freego bikes? I see that these have a 2 year warranty and will give a new bike if the old can't be repaired within 5 days. I have found a dealer who I haven't spoken to yet, but they are within possible commute distance to try them. They also offer an interest free two year loan.
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
Manufacturers have to replace free of charge any defective components as a result of manufacturing defects - that's the law.
There is a difference when a component becomes defective. Broken spokes, pedals falling off or creaking. The question then arises: is it a manufacturing defect or not? if it is, then it must be covered. If not, then it may not be covered.
The point is, guarantee normally does not cover a defective component as a result of accidental dammage or misuse (like offroading, use of dongle) or lack of maintenance.
Your manual must explain the need for maintenance of that component, like keep the spokes tightenened, oil the pedals. So, as long as you maintain your bike as per your manual, the defective component must be covered.

Electric bikes need as much mechanical maintenance as normal bikes, if not slightly more so. If you ride 500 miles plus a year with your normal bike, you will inevitably have to maintain the bike yourself or pay a bike shop for it.

The Kudos website explains the position very well.
https://www.kudoscycles.com/information.php?info_id=3



Warranties
All products are subject to the terms of guarantees or warranties issued with them and you as the customer are reminded that you should complete all guarantee and/or warranty cards/documents immediately upon receipt of goods where appropriate.

Any advice given by agents or servants of Kudos Cycles during telephone/internet orders is based entirely upon information given by you the customer. Where advice is given after visual inspection by agents or servants of Kudos Cycles, such advice shall amount to an opinion only and Kudos Cycles shall not accept liability for any inaccuracies. Additionally, goods are supplied only to correspond to the purpose for which goods of that kind are commonly supplied and not alternative uses to which they may be put. No liability for failure can be accepted by Kudos Cycles for such alternative use, amendment or modification.

Compatibility of goods is not guaranteed where modifications or alterations have been made and, in such circumstances, any refunds to you the customer shall be at Kudos Cycles' sole discretion.

Where goods purchased by you are alleged to be defective, you agree to advise us of such defects within 7 days of the goods being delivered to you or the defect becoming apparent and you agree within 7 days thereafter (and in accordance with our Returns Policy) to arrange for the return of such goods to us for inspection and report (without us replacing the said goods prior to such inspection).

You further confirm that it shall be reasonable for us to inspect, repair or replace (at our option) such defective goods and allow our manufacturers or suppliers to undertake inspections so as to allow product methods to be modified. You also accept that it is reasonable to inform us of any interruption, defect or other failure prior to contacting independent third parties or incurring expenses and, in addition, to allow us to remedy the defect. Parts improperly fitted, assembled, modified or adapted by you shall no longer be warranted by us or any manufacturer or supplier to us, nor shall they or we be liable for any failures resulting subsequent to modification.

We shall accept no liability for death or personal injury unless caused directly by Kudos Cycles' negligence in circumstances where assembly has been effected otherwise than in strictly in accordance with the instructions set out in the manual and/or attached to the product or where modifications or alterations and/or poor or irregular servicing or maintenance to goods have been made. No liability is accepted by us where you attempt to modify or install components supplied where it is known or ought reasonably to be known that the part supplied is incorrectly supplied, defective or otherwise not in accordance with the order.

We accept no liability for accidental or consequential damage or loss of any other matters beyond our reasonable control or in respect of failure to supply or other interruptions caused by strikes, lockouts, civil disputes, acts of God, war or actions by third parties.
The bicycle is warranted against any manufacturing fault (1) year from invoice purchase date. Specifically the LiFePO4 battery is warranted for (2) years and LiMnO4 battery is warranted for (1) year.

Battery warranty is subject to appropriate battery care - batteries should ideally be stored 80%→30% capacity and below 40°C. Extended storage in high temperatures and/or fully discharged for more than (1) week can considerably reduce the life of the battery.

The warranty is offered only to the original purchaser and does not include labour, transportation costs or investigative costs in fault diagnosis.

Normal wear and tear, accident, abuse, misuse, neglect, poor maintenance, improper assembly and fitment of parts not consistent with the standard specification or use originally intended for the bicycle as sold, are not covered by this warranty.

The bending of frames, forks, stays, handlebars, seat posts, seat stems, mudguards, rims, is a sign of misuse of the bicycle inconsistent with the bike's intended use and therefore is not covered by this warranty.

E-bikes are generally heavier than normal cycles and thus are subject to greater stress. The e-bike is not intended for stunt riding, ramp jumping, bunny hops, acrobatics or extreme rough surface off-road riding, it is up to the rider to determine whether such activity exceeds the capacity of the bicycle.

Damage caused by an accident or deliberate malicious act is not covered by this warranty.

Metal fatigue
It is possible to design a structure, such as a bicycle so strong that fatigue life is nearly infinite.

This would involve a lot of materials and hence considerable weight. Any structure that must be light and strong will have a finite fatigue life - aircraft, race cars, motorcycles, bicycles, all have parts which have parts with finite fatigue lives. If you wanted a bicycle with an almost infinite fatigue life it would be so heavy as to be unpleasant to ride. So there has to be a trade off between weight and life, a fatigue crack on a bicycle is not a manufacturing defect, it is a sign that the part has worn out, a sign that the part has reached the end of its useful life and needs replacement.

The fatigue life of a bicycle will be considerably reduced if the rider is tall and/or heavy putting additional bending moment stresses into the seat post, seat stem, seat tube and subsequently the frame. Obviously the fatigue life is also reduced if the bicycle is subject to excessive off-road usage - though some bicycles are more suited to off-road than others.


Motor overheating
The motors fitted to e-bikes are pedal assist, EN15194, are restricted to 250 watts power, most leg power is 150→250 watts so some pedal assistance is required to avoid over stressing the motor.

In particular, allowing the motor to 'labour' at slow speed on steep hills is not good practice and can cause the motor to overheat.

Excessive use of the throttle without pedal assist is specifically to be avoided.

A motor which has failed due to excessive heat will not be covered by warranty and is considered misuse of the product.

Return to base
'Base' can either mean Kudos Cycles and/or its agents. A charge of £25.00 will be levied on collection of any bicycle for any reason whatsoever.

It is up to the sender to ensure that the bicycle is sent in a strong 'bicycle' box, properly packed and fully bubble wrapped/protected. It is the responsibility of the sender to avoid any damage in transit.

Consumables
Bicycle parts normally subject to wear, such as tyres, bulbs, chain and chainrings, brake pads, gear cassette, cables, pedals and handle grips are not covered by the warranty unless failure is a direct consequence of an original manufacturing defect.

Service
As with any mechanised vehicle, your Kudos cycle will perform better if subject to a planned maintenance schedule by a skilled bicycle engineer. As a minimum, the cycle should be inspected, maintained and adjusted once per annum.
 
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D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
What I don't like about Woosh is the 28 day warranty on many parts. That gives me the impression that they know some bits are prone to going wrong so they don't give the twelve month warranty on them.
That's 28 more days than you'll get from most bike manufacturers. Didn't you read what I wrote earlier. You're worrying about nothing.
 

Kerry

Pedelecer
Sep 4, 2014
53
7
60
UK
Thanks for your responses.

Yes I did read what you said d8veh but for all I know you might be a mate of the owners and therefore biased about the company. I like to get as much feedback as possible from as many places as possible before I make any decision.

Regarding the warranty info posted, I appreciate that where it is damage by the owner that wouldn't be covered, but where it is just down to poor quality parts I would expect those parts to be covered for more than 28 days. The fact that they state those parts are only covered for 28 days makes me think that perhaps they aren't of particularly good quality.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
19,617
16,512
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Kerry

Thank you for raising the points about the warranty as they are important.

I hope I can clarify things for you.

Any warranty, ours included, must cover manufacturing defects. So if for example a pedal or a wheel rim had a crack or fissure, creating a fundamental weakness in the component and causing it to fail, that would be covered by the warranty. If a pedal falls off or a spoke works loose because they have not been sufficiently tightened that is a different matter. These items are mechanical, moving parts - they are not stationery, such as the components in a TV set- so you must expect to have to maintain them.

The 28 day warranty on these is to cover inherent defects that would almost certainly become apparent during this initial period. After this, we deem that if the part fails it can of course be replaced but not free of charge. We have had some customers who have ridden their bikes for several hundred miles within the first 28 day period. We would expect them to know that some maintenance will already be due by this time. We have also had customers who have immediately derestricted their bikes and ridden them at high speeds or off road and have also had some issues with parts fairly quickly. Our warranty quite clearly states that such activities are not covered, so they must expect to have to do some maintenance or pay for parts if needed. With the exception of one case recently, all have been perfectly happy to pay our very modest charges for replacement parts - spokes are £1 each, and pedals £4 each, nuts and bolts are usually free - you get the idea.

Electric bikes do need more maintenance than standard push bikes. You must be prepared to deal with this yourself, or get a friend or relative to do this for you. If you don't feel you can or don't know anyone 'bike-minded' a local bike shop will do this for you - we are talking about the mechanics of the bike here, not the electrics - but you will have to pay their fee. (usually very reasonable) and the cost of any parts.

In case I seem to be making heavy weather out of maintenance it really isn't hard. You need a few tools (£20 to £30) , common sense, the willingness to learn a few simple things and a good kettle for making the tea while you do it! Our manual is quite comprehensive and covers all the things you need to do yourself, and many councils run bike maintenance courses which are either free or very low cost. Maybe this would be an option for you?

If not, you might well be better off buying your bike from a local dealer (or as 'local' as possible in view of where you live). It may cost considerably more than one of our bikes but you would then get the reassurance of the local service.that most bike shops are very good at offering.

I hope this helps and wish you luck with whatever and wherever you decide to buy.

Hatti
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
I hope I am a mate of the Woosh guys. I try to be a mate of all the traders. I would only recommend something if I thought it was right for you. I have no commercial connections with any traders except Kudos. You'll note that I didn't recommend a Kudos, not because there's anything wrong with them, but because the Woosh bike meets your criteria better. Loads of people on this forum have bought Woosh bikes. Problems are rare, and when they do occur, they're sorted out quickly. As far as I can see, everybody that buys from them is happy with what they got, except one guy, who complained about their collection service because the independent courier couldn't find his house. I'm telling you, their after sales care is exceptional. I can't understand why you're so suspicious. Ask any other trader what warranty they'll offer on those parts that you mentioned.
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
... The fact that they state those parts are only covered for 28 days makes me think that perhaps they aren't of particularly good quality.
you have made a good point here.
German bikes tend to be fitted with far better mechanical components (tyres, rims, pedals, cranks, chain, chainring, brakes) than Chinese bikes.
Out of an £800 woosh bike, you pay £550 for the electrics, £250 for the mechanical bike. The mechanical bike is similar in quality to what you'd get in a normal bike for £250 at Halfords, so don't expect miracles.
However, there are plenty of threads about warranty issues with German bikes, like the current thread about Bosch bearings, it shows you that warranties you get with German bikes are not any better than with Woosh.
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/bosch-bearings.18712/
I have always advocated for self builds.
 
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danielrlee

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 27, 2012
1,350
694
Westbury, Wiltshire
torquetech.co.uk
I have no commercial connections with any traders except Kudos.
Out of interest, do you mind me asking what that connection is? Tell me to "get stuffed” if I'm being too nosey.

As far as the OP goes, d8veh gives sound advice, an opinion which I'm sure others will back up.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
I've got nothing to hide. I'm an official Kudos dealer - sort of. I have one Kudos Tornado in my garage. If anybody in the West Midlands wants to try one before buying, they can try mine. If they decide to buy one, Kudos will send it to me to prepare, and I get a few beers out of it. Of course, you'd get the very best after sales support from me, and probably the lowest cost because I never charge for labour.
 
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trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671

Kerry

Pedelecer
Sep 4, 2014
53
7
60
UK
I'm telling you, their after sales care is exceptional. I can't understand why you're so suspicious.
Because I have seen my husband squander thousands upon thousands over the years because he bought an item just on one persons recommendation. If he had taken the time to do some research he would have seen the other 2 million or so people that had a very different view of the company/item - obviously the 2 million bit is not specific just making the point! My husband has never learnt from his mistakes, but I most certainly have.

I am grateful for all recommendations, but then want to take those recommendations and research them. :)
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
My connection with Oxygen is only as friends, where I give my advice free. I have no commercial connection with them, although I've had some nice Baltis out of it. I have business cards that say "Oxygen Support and Design Engineer" to hand out in China because having one that says "Dave - All round nice bloke" causes too much confusion.
 

Kerry

Pedelecer
Sep 4, 2014
53
7
60
UK
Out of an £800 woosh bike, you pay £550 for the electrics, £250 for the mechanical bike. The mechanical bike is similar in quality to what you'd get in a normal bike for £250 at Halfords, so don't expect miracles.

I have always advocated for self builds.
Thank you for explaining the above point. That is something that I would not have known. :)

Self build is most definitely out! :)