Throttles and the EEC

[Wisper Bikes]

I have noticed a couple of posts regarding Pedelec Vs Throttle. As you know, under EEC rules we may not sell an electric bike with a throttle but we can use a 250w motor on our bikes, where as in the UK we can use throttles but only a 200w motor (what a mess! ). I believe that when we eventually align with the rest of Europe we will have the same conditions imposed on us. We will also need to fit a dynamo to power the lights.

The 905e's going to our European partners are already so equipped, however our cunning Wisper partners have ordered “throttle kits" that can be bought for a few euros and fitted by their customers. Does anyone know if fitting after the point of purchase is allowed? It seems obvious to say "no" but with such confusion over simple things like extra power for "off road" why should their not be an isolator switch for the throttle too?

If anyone knows any more about the use of throttles or delimiting circuits for "off road" use and the EEC... or when we are likely to be asked to fall in line I would be grateful for any information.

Best regards David

 

[nigel]

Nigel

Hi david
yes you are right its a mess its about time all these rules were bought into line so you and joe public gets a clearer picture on what you can do and not do.
Ref your 905 wisper bike i am quite tempted to buy one BUT but i also own a torq and wouldnt want to go back to 15mph as you know the torq will go up to 23mph does wisper have any plans for a boost switch NIGEL

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Coming soon!

Hi Nigel

The new 905Se is just arround the corner with lots of new goodies.

We will post full details very soon.

Best regards David

 

[Ian]

The EU law doesn't prohibit the use of a throttle, in fact it makes no mention of a throttle, it does however say that the rider must pedal before assistance can be available and that assistance must cease if the rider stops pedaling. The law doesn't concern itself with the method of controlling power while the rider is pedaling, only making the point that the rider must pedal, therefore a throttle in conjuction with a crank sensor is perfectly legal within current EU regulations.

I think if ever it was tested in a court the view would be taken that as a member state we must comply with EU law. I see the sale of e-bikes that will operate without pedaling as being a concession by trading standards that could be withdrawn at any time.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

EU regs

Thanks Ian,

So if we were to make our throttle power available only when the chain wheel is turning as you suggest it seems that would satisfy the EU requirements.

Does the law make it clear whether or not the peddle action should provide power to the bike or is the simple action of turning the chainwheel enough, and at what velocity and direction?

Do you have a link to the regulations?

Best regards David

 

[Ian]

Thanks Ian,

So if we were to make our throttle power available only when the chain wheel is turning as you suggest it seems that would satisfy the EU requirements.

Does the law make it clear whether or not the peddle action should provide power to the bike or is the simple action of turning the chainwheel enough, and at what velocity and direction?

Do you have a link to the regulations?

Best regards David

David,

As I understand things your first statement would satisfy the EU requirements, however don't quote me, I'm not a lawyer

I know that at least one other manufacturers pedelecs for the EU market do have a twistgrip throttle the same as the UK models, but differ by not having a switch to disable the crank sensor. Also the one model I have personal experience of does require that the cranks are rotated in a forward direction, although velocity seems unimportant.

The EU directive stating vehicles exempt from type approval is here, a factsheet from our own DoT (The UK laws) here, and AtoB magazines interpretation here.(At bottom of page).

In reality there is no reason to prohibit the provision of a throttle on a pedelec as long as it does not override the crank sensor, it simply gives the rider the ability to reduce the amount of assist available to less than the rated motor power.

Ian.

 

[andrewelectricbike1]

Don`t go digging too deep or rocking too many boats. Cliché alert
"Grey area" rules are better for ebike development in my opinion.

 

[Ian]

I know what you mean Andrew but I think David as a responsible supplier wants to ensure he stays within the rules, which entails understanding the rules.

 

[andrewelectricbike1]

Whisper, why don`t you offer a retro fit UK spec throttle assembly and leave it up to them. Alternatively an in-line "Off road" switch that just enables the throttle for those rare off road moments. Play the game and let other people make the choice.

The closest definition I like is on the AtoB website. This site has one too http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/categories/Are-they-legal?/

 

[Jed]

Hi Nigel

The new 905Se is just arround the corner with lots of new goodies.

We will post full details very soon.

Best regards David

will their be an off-road setting then?

thanks
Jed

 

[Beeping-Sleauty]

Throttles....

interesting thread,

although covered previously in the forum, it may be worthwhile seeing this article again:

BBC NEWS | England | Devon | Police charged with electric bike

you'll note in the text ..."Alternatively, when the need arises, the officer can just override the pedals with a throttle to use the motor on its own"

the bike he is riding is a variant of the Eco-Brand Whirlwind, which i have, there is no need to even put your feet on the pedals, just 'twist-n-go' with the throttle, and when you do start pedalling the Pedelec assistance kicks in.

there is no dis-able switch for the pedal sensor.

beeps

 

[Ian]

Could be embarrasing if ever a court decided the EU law was gospel, although it's likeley that any judgement would only affect bikes sold after judgement day.

 

[Beeping-Sleauty]

Could be embarrasing if ever a court decided the EU law was gospel, although it's likeley that any judgement would only affect bikes sold after judgement day.

yes Ian, there would be plenty of 'back-pedalling', to run with the pun.

quite a number of Police Forces are now using this standard machine with throttle over-ride, regardless of the actual legality

but it makes sense to have the throttle available to assist the moving off,
my pedelec starts assisting after 1.5 complete revolutions of the pedals, but this is exactly where you need a bit of useful help - pushing off - so to speak.

especially at busy junctions, where time is tight, or on a slope perhaps.

i simply cannot understand the 'legal' throttle restriction as it stands,

lets hope the lobby is large enough to make this change, it will certainly help the case if the constabulary are using pedelecs and like this facility.

hopefull
beeps

 

[Ian]

As with the Royal Mail bikes, I can't help wondering how many police bikes will be nicked, after all the nature of a bobbies work means there may well be criminals about.

 

[flecc]

The kids will want to rise to the challenge!

Like this. The specialist van service that cleans tags and other grafitti from our bus stops drew up by my local stop as I walked past, and the driver got his gear out from the front as he always does.

I glanced round as I passed by and there on the back of the van was a freshly adorned tag!
.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks!

Thanks pedelecers all for your very useful comments and pointers. Being relatively new to pedelec marketing...... as I have said before, all help is most gratefully received!

The new 905Se with all it's new goodies will be "coming out" at the New Milton event.

Best regards David

 

[electric.mike]

on the subject of throttle control i found this statement

The power switch or control must default to off, requiring a constant intervention from the rider in order to maintain power assistance. (No power without pedalling, as required in some other countries, also satisfies this requirement.)

is this a throttle by definition, and would it make power increase by notching up a switch or tightening a throttle illegal.

the quote came from this page

mike

 

[Ian]

Hi Mike,
All the "throttles" Ive ever seen do require constant user intervention, ie. they are spring loaded to default to off and therefore satisfy the requirements.

The term "throttle" is derived from it's counterpart on a motorcycle where it takes the form of a valve to regulate the air/fuel mixture and it's use in the context of epacs is not necessarily correct. Perhaps in order to avoid confusing the judge we should start referring to it as the "pulse width modulation control"

 

[electric.mike]

Ian

Hi Mike,
All the "throttles" Ive ever seen do require constant user intervention, ie. they are spring loaded to default to off and therefore satisfy the requirements

this is the point i was making but i thought i had seen a bike advertised that had a gear leaver type control which stayed where you put it,this would not be within the current law surely,or if you made an adjustment that stopped the throttle returning automatically.

mike

 

[Ian]

It seems most of our bikes are illegal anyway. According to that ctc page it is illegal to sell e-bikes (non-pedalecs) and all eapc's must display a plate showing the manufacturer's name, the nominal battery voltage and motor power output. Something I've never seen.