I have ridden the Torq now for about 2000 miles on London's roads. It is great apart from usual teething problems (juddering front brakes), a faulty battery and the awful ride on our badly maintained roads. On a normal bicycle without suspension you can lift off the saddle and let the frame absorb the bumps. On the Torq the frame is much less flexible and also much, much heavier. The result is an incredibly jarring, harsh ride that limits the speed at which you go. I may be unusual in that I cycle 20 mile a day, 5 days a week but I am not sure my body can take much more of the pounding. Has anybody fitted front suspension forks to a Torq or considered it? It seems difficult to find suspension forks for 700c wheels but I have found these SR Suntour 700c CR850 Hybrid bike suspension fork - Discount Bicycles Limited and they come in various sizes. Before I take the forks to pieces does anybody know if these may fit?
Torq's harsh ride
- Thread starter HarryB
- Start date
That's an interesting thought HarryB - I'm considering the Torq but also for a regular London commute (15 miles each way), so may have the same problem.
I assume frame and headset are standard and so could fit suspension forks - but the fact that it's not standard at this price makes me wonder whether there's any problem with suspension forks and front wheel drive motor?
Has anybody done this upgrade?
I assume frame and headset are standard and so could fit suspension forks - but the fact that it's not standard at this price makes me wonder whether there's any problem with suspension forks and front wheel drive motor?
Has anybody done this upgrade?
I can't pick many faults with my Torq, but do have to agree it's ride can be a bit hard, my solution is to wear fingerless MTB gloves with heavily padded palms, proper padded cycling undershorts and to take most of my weight on my legs on the bigest bumps, I'm also looking at ways to use soft handlebar grips with the twistgrip throttle.
I't wouldn't be that easy to fit suspension forks, they would be longer than the existing forks to allow for suspension travel which would raise the front of the bike and thus alter the geometry. Also the hub motor spindle is a larger diameter than than on a conventional hub, and then there is the torque plate mounting to consider, I normaly have no qualms about modifying my torq to improve it's rideability but I have shied away from that particular modification.
The Suntour forks in the link have a 1" threaded steerer whereas the Torq has a 1.125" threadless streerer tube.
Ian.
PS. I also have a Sprint that does have suspension forks, while it gives a smoother ride than the Torq I much prefer the nice tight handling of the rigid Torq, the Sprint has "squishy" feel when leaning hard into corners and I frequently catch a pedal on the ground.
I't wouldn't be that easy to fit suspension forks, they would be longer than the existing forks to allow for suspension travel which would raise the front of the bike and thus alter the geometry. Also the hub motor spindle is a larger diameter than than on a conventional hub, and then there is the torque plate mounting to consider, I normaly have no qualms about modifying my torq to improve it's rideability but I have shied away from that particular modification.
The Suntour forks in the link have a 1" threaded steerer whereas the Torq has a 1.125" threadless streerer tube.
Ian.
PS. I also have a Sprint that does have suspension forks, while it gives a smoother ride than the Torq I much prefer the nice tight handling of the rigid Torq, the Sprint has "squishy" feel when leaning hard into corners and I frequently catch a pedal on the ground.
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It's the very high unspung weight of the motor, 28" wheel and tyre that's the problem Harry.
When the wheel is jolted upwards by bumps, the shock effect is proportional to the ratio of that unsprung wheel weight to the bike as a whole. With the wheel weight high and the bike weight relatively low, the shock is large. Suspension forks do help of course.
If you were to take out the motor wheel and replace it with a standard 700C wheel, the bike would suddenly become magically more comfortable, less weight to throw the bike about.
There's some things you can do to alleviate the problem. There's the obvious one of running on fairly low tyre pressures, the permitted range is on the tyre wall. Another very effective dodge is to pivot the handlebar extension upwards so that you have a more upright position. This takes body weight off your wrists and will make the ride much more comfortable. The less weight on your wrists, the less you'll notice the bumps. Í've done that with my Torq and can ride through two batteries worth of charge now, around thirty miles or more, where before I felt battered after only nine or ten miles. There's also the gloves mentioned above of course.
.
When the wheel is jolted upwards by bumps, the shock effect is proportional to the ratio of that unsprung wheel weight to the bike as a whole. With the wheel weight high and the bike weight relatively low, the shock is large. Suspension forks do help of course.
If you were to take out the motor wheel and replace it with a standard 700C wheel, the bike would suddenly become magically more comfortable, less weight to throw the bike about.
There's some things you can do to alleviate the problem. There's the obvious one of running on fairly low tyre pressures, the permitted range is on the tyre wall. Another very effective dodge is to pivot the handlebar extension upwards so that you have a more upright position. This takes body weight off your wrists and will make the ride much more comfortable. The less weight on your wrists, the less you'll notice the bumps. Í've done that with my Torq and can ride through two batteries worth of charge now, around thirty miles or more, where before I felt battered after only nine or ten miles. There's also the gloves mentioned above of course.
.
Thanks for all the advice and Ian thanks for giving me the size of forks. I hadn't really given much thought to the link I added - yes of course they are threadless and these should be the right size - SR Suntour 700c CR850 Hybrid bike suspension fork - Discount Bicycles Limited
Flecc, I'll try moving the handlebars and maybe try the padded gloves. The padded shorts are a step too far as I like to turn up to work dressed in normal clothes. Anyway they are the cheap options before trying something more drastic.
Flecc, I'll try moving the handlebars and maybe try the padded gloves. The padded shorts are a step too far as I like to turn up to work dressed in normal clothes. Anyway they are the cheap options before trying something more drastic.
Torq Hard Ride and Batteries (Li-ion)
My Torq is a hard ride on country roads, and this is most noticeable where one can see the deteriorating road surface comming up. Of course , as Flecc has said "Suspension Forks will alter the geometry".
Less tyre pressure helps but only up to a point and at the expense of other factors of advantage.
To alleviate some of the problem I (with a little help from my friend) created a "sticky" throttle so that one can find a moment to remove the left hand and exercise it a little to alleviate the 'Handlebar palsy'. Of course the right hand is making only a small contribution and can get much more rest.
I think the problem (I have well padded mitts. nonetheless) lies in the hard rubber grips and their diameter being much smaller than a large hand curled to fit. Of course, wheel weight is probably the biggest single factor.
On the subject of Li-ion batteries I was somewhat dismayed (you may have read some of my test results when I feared it was beginning to die). I took delivery in July 2006 and my wife used the Chopper very little before this Spring - in fact only 80 miles. By the time I had carried out tests to check its decrepitude it had completed only 101 miles. It was then that I had discovered that its 'guarantee' is for only six months: that was buried away somewhere under some comments about Lithium batteries. It certainly was not part of a qualification when stating the terms of the 'guarantee' given on the bike's specification "1 year parts and repair".
I might have been better advised if the cycle had come with a written guarantee identifying the terms of the guarantee more expansive than just 5 words - just like one would get with a refrigerator, freezer, television or even a humble kettle. I asked some a days ago for some clarification for a very good reason but I am stll awaiting an acknowledgement.
It seems not to matter that in May 2006, when the Chopper was ordered, its
specification stated that it was capable of 15 mph on motor alone and had a gear range of 36 to 96 inches. In the last analysis, when I (myself) actually rode the bike giving a demonstration to a prospective purchaser, I discovered that the top speed was only 12.5 mph and that the gear range was in fact 28 to 70 inches. I was considerably embarrassed. I advised 50Cycles of my findings and they (some little credit to them) changed the specification on the website within a few days and acknowledge my 'observations'. Any apology was conspicuous by its absence.
Yes the Torq is far removed from the generalised "good bike" as many see it. It is well constructed (ask again in 5 years) and it's redeeming feature is that it will do 22 mph on the flat (OK in America but illegal here).
Peter
My Torq is a hard ride on country roads, and this is most noticeable where one can see the deteriorating road surface comming up. Of course , as Flecc has said "Suspension Forks will alter the geometry".
Less tyre pressure helps but only up to a point and at the expense of other factors of advantage.
To alleviate some of the problem I (with a little help from my friend) created a "sticky" throttle so that one can find a moment to remove the left hand and exercise it a little to alleviate the 'Handlebar palsy'. Of course the right hand is making only a small contribution and can get much more rest.
I think the problem (I have well padded mitts. nonetheless) lies in the hard rubber grips and their diameter being much smaller than a large hand curled to fit. Of course, wheel weight is probably the biggest single factor.
On the subject of Li-ion batteries I was somewhat dismayed (you may have read some of my test results when I feared it was beginning to die). I took delivery in July 2006 and my wife used the Chopper very little before this Spring - in fact only 80 miles. By the time I had carried out tests to check its decrepitude it had completed only 101 miles. It was then that I had discovered that its 'guarantee' is for only six months: that was buried away somewhere under some comments about Lithium batteries. It certainly was not part of a qualification when stating the terms of the 'guarantee' given on the bike's specification "1 year parts and repair".
I might have been better advised if the cycle had come with a written guarantee identifying the terms of the guarantee more expansive than just 5 words - just like one would get with a refrigerator, freezer, television or even a humble kettle. I asked some a days ago for some clarification for a very good reason but I am stll awaiting an acknowledgement.
It seems not to matter that in May 2006, when the Chopper was ordered, its
specification stated that it was capable of 15 mph on motor alone and had a gear range of 36 to 96 inches. In the last analysis, when I (myself) actually rode the bike giving a demonstration to a prospective purchaser, I discovered that the top speed was only 12.5 mph and that the gear range was in fact 28 to 70 inches. I was considerably embarrassed. I advised 50Cycles of my findings and they (some little credit to them) changed the specification on the website within a few days and acknowledge my 'observations'. Any apology was conspicuous by its absence.
Yes the Torq is far removed from the generalised "good bike" as many see it. It is well constructed (ask again in 5 years) and it's redeeming feature is that it will do 22 mph on the flat (OK in America but illegal here).
Peter
Hi HarryB & all,
I'm still quite new to the Torq - 300miles or so - but it may be some consolation to you that I've also found many road surfaces to be poor for cycling in this neck of the woods.
My bars are now at the "60 degree" position and, despite my greater weight, I run front tyre @ 45 PSI & rear @ 50 PSI as Flecc has posted elswhere, and found a very marked improvement in front "pneumatic suspension" at that pressure, compared to the the "minimum recommended" 50 PSI, and aswell as picking the least uneven routes where possible, those measures work tolerably well for me on the whole right now.
I have also considered, when tyre replacement becomes necessary, a 45/47mm (as now) or 50mm size such that I can safely run at the same or slightly lower pressures for a similar level of comfort, despite the possible slight adverse effect on handling/control compared to a narrower tyre.
I've heard that an aluminium frame (such as the Torq's and most other "light weight" leccies) can give a more responsive but "stiffer" ride i.e. less give/flex than a heavier alloy frame: maybe this is also due in part to the higher "front wheel:frame" weight ratio as you said flecc, aswell as the different material properties of alloy & aluminium? in this respect, and for strength, do the alloy front forks of the Torq help reduce "shocks" do you think?
One other note: I find the suspension seatpost does a good job of shock absorbing, maybe too good since it seems to make the shocks through the front wheel & bars more apparent! When comparing the ride comfort & tyre pressures of my Torq & front suspension (no seat or rear suspension) Aluminium MTB with 26" x 1.9/2.0" semi-slicks I found the most noticeable difference was the noticeable jarring of my back/spine with the MTB!
I'm still quite new to the Torq - 300miles or so - but it may be some consolation to you that I've also found many road surfaces to be poor for cycling in this neck of the woods.
I've already done exactly these myself (once I'd obtained a 6mm allen key for the handlebar adjustment) and found that they do both help:flecc said:
My bars are now at the "60 degree" position and, despite my greater weight, I run front tyre @ 45 PSI & rear @ 50 PSI as Flecc has posted elswhere, and found a very marked improvement in front "pneumatic suspension" at that pressure, compared to the the "minimum recommended" 50 PSI, and aswell as picking the least uneven routes where possible, those measures work tolerably well for me on the whole right now.
I have also considered, when tyre replacement becomes necessary, a 45/47mm (as now) or 50mm size such that I can safely run at the same or slightly lower pressures for a similar level of comfort, despite the possible slight adverse effect on handling/control compared to a narrower tyre.
I've heard that an aluminium frame (such as the Torq's and most other "light weight" leccies) can give a more responsive but "stiffer" ride i.e. less give/flex than a heavier alloy frame: maybe this is also due in part to the higher "front wheel:frame" weight ratio as you said flecc, aswell as the different material properties of alloy & aluminium? in this respect, and for strength, do the alloy front forks of the Torq help reduce "shocks" do you think?
One other note: I find the suspension seatpost does a good job of shock absorbing, maybe too good since it seems to make the shocks through the front wheel & bars more apparent! When comparing the ride comfort & tyre pressures of my Torq & front suspension (no seat or rear suspension) Aluminium MTB with 26" x 1.9/2.0" semi-slicks I found the most noticeable difference was the noticeable jarring of my back/spine with the MTB!
I think they do, but because the flexing is fore and aft rather than up and down, the help given is very limited.
If only we had a precision suspension post rather than the ones at present that have rotational slop, a suspension post could be incorporated in the handlebar stem as an alternative form of suspension/shock absorber. That would let the bike bounce up and down with the rider oblivious to it.
Hi,
I found the original very hard grips to be quite painful on the hands and tiring holding the throttle. I bought a pair of soft rubber motorcycle grips called 'supper grips' for £6.50 from a m/c dealer.
Taking the old grips off, cutting the new to size and fitting took me about an hour, but the change in comfort is excellent. No more aching palms.
While adding the new grips, I moved the controls slightly inward so I could fit cranked handlebar extensions, this allows me to change position of hands a bit, especially when the throttle isn't required. Similar to the ones in Flecc's mod page, but mine are fited to the ends of the bars.
Charlie.
I found the original very hard grips to be quite painful on the hands and tiring holding the throttle. I bought a pair of soft rubber motorcycle grips called 'supper grips' for £6.50 from a m/c dealer.
Taking the old grips off, cutting the new to size and fitting took me about an hour, but the change in comfort is excellent. No more aching palms.
While adding the new grips, I moved the controls slightly inward so I could fit cranked handlebar extensions, this allows me to change position of hands a bit, especially when the throttle isn't required. Similar to the ones in Flecc's mod page, but mine are fited to the ends of the bars.
Charlie.
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You've fitted them as they should be of course Charlie. Mine are inboard due to wanting a bar end mirror, and they're primarily there on mine as a ground protection rather than for much use as bars.
That's a good idea on the m/c grips, anything that absorbs the hammering will help a lot, and with many motorcycles suffering severe engine vibration in the handlebars, that trade knows a thing or two about coping with it.
.
If a more drastic measure like front suspension on the Torq becomes necessary (as a last resort), how difficult would it be to fit, overcoming issues like those Ian pointed out:
What about the other points?
I appreciate it would affect handling/rideability/efficiency etc. but at least if its done, some suspension forks allow tuning or even "lockout", plus a smaller wheel & possibly lower profile tyres too will improve the Torq's torque
.
Did you ever consider this as an option for a Torq mod flecc? I know you dislike suspension, but would you rule it out even with "lockable" forks on those grounds? Or is it a bad idea because of the difficulties like Ian said of getting the forks to fit the motor width etc.??
Also, if it can be done, do you know what type of fork might be most suitable/cost-effective?
Thanks,
Stuart.
Could the motor be respoked into smaller 26" or even 24" (depending on suspension "travel" & crank ground clearance) rims & appropriate 26"/24" forks be used to overcome the first issue of bike geometry?Ian said:
What about the other points?
I appreciate it would affect handling/rideability/efficiency etc. but at least if its done, some suspension forks allow tuning or even "lockout", plus a smaller wheel & possibly lower profile tyres too will improve the Torq's torque
.Did you ever consider this as an option for a Torq mod flecc? I know you dislike suspension, but would you rule it out even with "lockable" forks on those grounds? Or is it a bad idea because of the difficulties like Ian said of getting the forks to fit the motor width etc.??
Also, if it can be done, do you know what type of fork might be most suitable/cost-effective?
Thanks,
Stuart.
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Or this.
No, I wouldn't consider suspension forks under any circumstances, I like cycling.
I can't recommend any as I've never fitted them and never would. Apparently there are some better makes in the cycling field, but most are the cheap horrors from Zoom, Shox and the like.
.
No, I wouldn't consider suspension forks under any circumstances, I like cycling.
I can't recommend any as I've never fitted them and never would. Apparently there are some better makes in the cycling field, but most are the cheap horrors from Zoom, Shox and the like.
.
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Ok, thanks for the replies: I half-expected your answer flecc and thanks for your honesty.
I'm mindful of the comfort-grips Ian, good that they're linked to from this thread, flecc's T-bike too, but to be honest I have other causes for concern about the Torq's "harsh ride" which handlebar padding wouldn't alleviate & which led me to consider suspension as a way to minimise the problem; the possibility of improving the motorwheel gearing almost for free at the same time was a bonus.
However, I think I'll probably forget about the whole idea: the absence of an answer on overcoming the difficulties speaks volumes better to begin with something closer to the right bike than try to make difficult changes later on I guess... .
Stuart.
and thanks for your honesty.I'm mindful of the comfort-grips Ian, good that they're linked to from this thread, flecc's T-bike too, but to be honest I have other causes for concern about the Torq's "harsh ride" which handlebar padding wouldn't alleviate & which led me to consider suspension as a way to minimise the problem; the possibility of improving the motorwheel gearing almost for free at the same time was a bonus
.However, I think I'll probably forget about the whole idea: the absence of an answer on overcoming the difficulties speaks volumes
better to begin with something closer to the right bike than try to make difficult changes later on I guess... .Stuart.
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juddering front brakes
I feel your pain with my daily commute and final had enough of the juddering brakes and traded out to a pair of Avid Rim Brakes.
SRAM | Avid | Rim Brakes
Very nice no juddering around easy to adjust. They stay true to your adjustment. Around $35.00 US.
I feel your pain with my daily commute and final had enough of the juddering brakes and traded out to a pair of Avid Rim Brakes.
SRAM | Avid | Rim Brakes
Very nice no juddering around easy to adjust. They stay true to your adjustment. Around $35.00 US.
That reminds me, now my Shimano Deore XT rim brakes have bedded in mine have stopped juddering and are very powerful, something else I'd almost forgoten about.
Just to clarify the above problems with fitting suspension forks:
The torque plate could easily be modified or even a new one made up.
The suspension forks are 2cm longer than standard when uncompressed so with the weight of the rider I don't think they would upset the geometry too much.
The hub motor spindle might be a slightly larger diameter, I don't know, but the forks could easily be adjusted. The thing that makes fitting them so hard is the shear width of the motor itself and the spindle length. There is very little give in suspension forks so for this reason I think you would have to be pretty determined to fit suspension forks - you would need to use an engineering shop unless of course you were Flecc.
I have tried fitting the comfort grips but to be honest the difference they make (for me) is marginal on London's roads. It is still the one thing about the Torq that I find most annoying but not much can be done about it apart from trading it in (which is still pretty drastic).
HarryB
There is a fairly easy option for fitting matching suspension forks on the Torq.
You could check the price for them and order a set of Forza forks from 50cycles.
The frame headstock arrangement looks identical, the black fork finish matches, and although the Sprint motor is a fraction narrower I think, there's some leeway on the fitments of the Quando motor in the Torq for width adjustment.
As I always show, where there's a will, there's a way!
.
You could check the price for them and order a set of Forza forks from 50cycles.
The frame headstock arrangement looks identical, the black fork finish matches, and although the Sprint motor is a fraction narrower I think, there's some leeway on the fitments of the Quando motor in the Torq for width adjustment.
As I always show, where there's a will, there's a way!
.
Thanks Harry & flecc for that advice, I'm much obliged .
You're so right flecc and it's so obvious really! I do feel rather dense...
So long as the motor fits widthwise, I'm assuming that respoking the Torq motor into 26" wheel rim would be required since the Forza forks & V-brake fitting take that wheel size?
.You're so right flecc and it's so obvious really! I do feel rather dense...
So long as the motor fits widthwise, I'm assuming that respoking the Torq motor into 26" wheel rim would be required since the Forza forks & V-brake fitting take that wheel size?
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