Tour of Britain stage 3 route

[WaiWonChing]

Hi,

First and foremost I did not have an intention to win any race but only to demonstrate some important points and to correct some misleading articles in the forum and other publication.

We started a little late about 10.20 am on the 10th Sept, and the route took a lot of navigating effort , and so it was not exactly the same for all for one reason or other. The weather was beautiful, but it did rain and the wind was very strong when we got somewhere near to the end, and we did not like to ride on a very busy main road at night and we therefore finished at Bridgwater about 6 miles from Burham-on-Sea.

Myself and Nick have Cycleanalysts attached and the detail results shown below.
Ching + Torq 2 / Nick + Torq 1
Miles 110.56 / 98.41
Ah 37.11 / 40.9
Miles/Ah 2.98 / 2.41
Wh 1316.2 / 1521.3
Wh/miles 11.9 / 15.5
Mph Max 36.1 / 45.4
Mph Avg 14.9 / 15.6
Time 7hrs23m / 6hrs16m

I knew exactly was up and accomplished it. With 4 batteries I completed the course of 112 miles of very hilly terrain at an average speed of about 24 kmph / 15 mph. I don’t have the skill nor the balls for speed like Conal or Nick, I pulled the brakes on going downhill, 36 mph is enough for me. Actually, I was quite right in an earlier thread that eZee coasting downhill is just as good as the Panasonic, because we have freewheel in the hub motor and the drag is very very small.

My experience with the silk route was far more difficult, with some serious mountains to cross and not hills like these.

The fundamentals and basics of the electric bike. These I am trying to make clear here. It is about energy content like in your car fuel tank , you don’t expect to run the same distance with 2/3 tank vs. a full tank, of course 370 Wh of battery will do more than 270 Wh, and the efficiency with which it is done. Higher speed will require substantially higher energy once it pass the 12 / 14 mph mark.
eZee drive has an efficiency of 70 ~ 82 % over loads of 150 to 600 watts, and I doubt there is anything better over this range. The eZee motor hubs on the Torq 2, Forza and Sprint are able to deliver far higher torque (36Nm at 140rpm) and power (720 watts) than the Panasonic Drive.

Efficiency and power does not depend on whether it is pedelec activated by torque sensors or motion sensors or pure e-bike mode on throttle, or better efficiency could be derived from drive via the BB over hub motors. The energy required will be the sum of the human power + electric power for the work done. My energy sum accomplished the 110.56 miles provided by the 4 batteries + the body energy for a man of 58 yrs. There is also the need to know how to used the gears/sprockets on the rear wheel appropriately to get the most out of the system. With eZee you have a wide range of choices for the way you would prefer to ride. I would say the most successful rider is Andrew Grayland with his Torq 2, did 112 miles , and still have about 5 Ah left on his 4th battery.

Here we have left a benchmark, and hope in future there will be participants with other bikes to demonstrate what could be done. Actually the only other bike I am keen to take on is the US$7~8,000 Optibike.

The Jurassic 50 km test in Switzerland we have taken on the Flyer, Bionx, Dolphins and etc, and the Torq 2 crossed the finishing line first, and then 3 years of Prestigne rally, and various serious trekking events – London to Paris Poppy Day event by Ian with one leg, Minnesota to New Orleans >2000 miles by Quentin www.bigriverride.com , Melbourne to Sydney 1200 km Suitable Transport , 2000 km trekking in Southern France by Richard Peace, and my 2200 km of the Silk Route , were not convincing enough ?. Week after next I will be continuing on my stage 3 of the Silk Route from Xian to DunHuang. And we are planning on the Zero Rally Africa from Victoria Falls to Cape Town for 4000 km in 10 days with our Torq 3.

W W Ching

 

[Sector]

Congratulations

That's a great achievement for the bikes and for the riders. It shows what can be done if you have a powerful bike, enough watt-hours in the batteries and determination in the riders.

For the record, what was the total weight of each bike on the road, including rider and batteries?

 

[Tiberius]

No-one or their bike was actually weighed. But I was carrying 50 Ah of batteries and a water bottle so my bike must have been very close to 40 kg. I expect the other bikes were between 35 and 40 kg. I weigh about 70 kg, including helmet.

I think in future it would be a good idea to enforce the 40 kg limit as a simple way of stopping people carrying excessive amounts of batteries.

Nick

 

[flecc]

A magnificent achievement Wai Won, not many 58 year olds would equal what you've done in that ride.

That takes nothing away from the bike's performance and I've made similar points myself about the efficiency of hub motors versus drive through gears. This extract from my forum article on drive through the gears is an example:

"let's look at how someone arguing that drive through gears are more efficient unwittingly proved completely the opposite in two of his posts entered at the same time.

In one post he argued that drive through gears like those on the Twist had to be more efficient due to the fact that a hub motor covering the range had to be off it's maximum efficiency point part of the time. In his other post he stated that his Torq was giving an average of 37 miles range with efficient use of the throttle. On his 360 watt/hour battery that means a consumption of 9.7 watt/hours per mile. The typical 5 speed Twist drive through gear bike gives a 17 mile range on it's 156 watt/hour battery, that's a consumption of 9.2 watt/hours per mile.

So the Twist uses 5.2% less power than his Torq. But the the Twist averages 12.5 mph at best across the ground, viz tests by A to B, myself and others, while a restricted Torq like his typically averages at least 15 mph across the ground, which is 20% faster. Many riders do much better. Since the performance is better by at least 20% for a cost of only 5.2% of extra power, his Torq is the more efficient, and thus he defeated his own argument."

Of course it's with less strong riders on the steepest hills that the Panasonic system can be of value, since if they cannot maintain enough speed to keep a hub motor in it's power band, the drive through the gears option rescues them with it's lower power used geared as necessary for a climb. Overall though, the Panasonic rider has to do more work for a given result, precisely in line with your argument.
.

 

[wotwozere]

Hi

How come Nick only did 98miles and Waiwon did 110 miles?

I am not sure why this is an achievment apart from a lot of patience of sitting for 7 hours at 15 mph, are these bikes full power like a moped or do you have to pedal? Wouldn't any bike achieve this that is on the market? The amazing thing is the time and patience people have to achieve this distance.

Well done!

thx

Bob

 

[flecc]

Nick posted in another thread that he had an intermittent motor fault near the end which cut short his journey near the end.

On that route with it's steep and often long gradients and using only that current a very high proportion of work had to come from the riders, Wai Won on the Torq 2 and Nick on the Torq 1, so it was a very long way from a case of the motors doing it all. Nick's Torq 1 in particular is very rider dependent on steep gradients to keep the motor within it's power band.

Some of the riders have reported on their aches and pains on the days following, and it's not a route I would choose to ride, even on my champion hill climbing bike.
.

 

[fishingpaul]

I think it is a common misconception for people too think an electric bike will just roll along at 15mph all day,with no input from the rider even up steep hills,in reallity they are not motorbikes and most work best with as much rider input as possible especially on steep hills, they are designed to enhance rider effort not replace it,the main thing is they enable people to ride bikes for distances and up hills that they could not achieve on a normal bike.

 

[Tiberius]

Hi Bob,

Oh yes, I was pedalling. As flecc and Paul explained you really do have to work on a journey like that. On the other hand coming back down the other side of Exmoor didn't require a lot of input from either me or the motor.

Edited to add: If you look at the figures, I used more electricity per mile, so you will see that Wai Won was pedalling harder than I was. Or at least that is the average over the whole journey.

Nick

 

[Tiberius]

Some pictures. I see there is now a way to upload pictures directly to the forum instead of uploading elsewhere and linking to them. But I'm not sure whether I can make them display. You may have to click on it to view.

First one is Wai Won Ching.
Second is Tiberius
Third is a battery of batteries

 

[JamesC]

Some pictures. I see there is now a way to upload pictures directly to the forum instead of uploading elsewhere and linking to them. But I'm not sure whether I can make them display. You may have to click on it to view.

First one is Wai Won Ching.
Second is Tiberius
Third is a battery of batteries

Good to see the action shots of the Torqs 1 and 2. Were you using Sanyo or Phylion batteries ? It was good to hear that you got up pretty much all of the steep stuff on the high geared Torq 1. By the sound of it, WaiWon Ching sailed up on the Torq 2.

Seeing WaiWon's bike with the extra battery packs on the carrier as per the Ezee kits, I still recommend the mod of being able to plug in a second battery to share the load, rather than just carry the battery for a changeover.

It is noticeable how much more interest there is from forum members in longer rides, and interesting routes. WaiWon has done much to encourage it, and I for one have enjoyed the results.

James

 

[john]

First one is Wai Won Ching.

I'm surprised he made it at all with feet positioned like that

 

[flecc]

I'm surprised he made it at all with feet positioned like that

It's always amazed me too John, how photos from the Orient show cyclists almost universally on the instep of the foot. They do tend to use much lower cadences than we commonly do though, so there may be some vague connection there.
.

 

[Tiberius]

Seeing WaiWon's bike with the extra battery packs on the carrier as per the Ezee kits, I still recommend the mod of being able to plug in a second battery to share the load, rather than just carry the battery for a changeover.

Hi James,

I agree. I think he was using a Schottky combiner to connect two at a time. I had a system for combining up to 4 batteries, but I decided to run two down first and then get rid of them to reduce the weight.

Nick

 

[flecc]

I decided to run two down first and then get rid of them to reduce the weight.

Nick

Could you let us know where you dumped them Nick?
.

 

[wotwozere]

Flecc

Probably at 98 miles with the bike
Seems a long way to walk.

thx

Bob

 

[flecc]

Flecc

Probably at 98 miles with the bike
Seems a long way to walk.

thx

Bob

Nick may have cycled the remaining 12 miles without power, or had another means to carry him and the bike away, car, van, elephant.
.

 

[frank9755]

I had a system for combining up to 4 batteries, but I decided to run two down first and then get rid of them to reduce the weight.

Nick

Wow - you could have chucked your wallet away to save a little bit more weight, Nick!

 

[Tiberius]

...means to carry him and the bike away....

Yes. Obviously we did have means of transporting bikes and people, if only to get to and from the event. My bike just went in one of them a bit early.

There is actually another reason for the recorded mileages all differing by a few miles, and that is that we didn't all take the same route. Translation of that: we got lost a few times.

Even if we had all taken exactly the same route, I would still expect a spread due to inaccuracies in the meters. For instance, I changed my tyre size for the ride and that will have made my reading low by 3.5%

Nick

 

[flecc]

Even if we had all taken exactly the same route, I would still expect a spread due to inaccuracies in the meters. For instance, I changed my tyre size for the ride and that will have made my reading low by 3.5%

Nick

That's true Nick, even the variations in lines taken on the road by differing rider styles can make a difference on a long run, kerb hugging versus straightening out the corners for example, the former travelling further of course.
.

 

[flecc]

Nick may have- - - - had another means to carry him and the bike away, car, van, elephant.
.

My elephant mention was a reference to a televised Tour of Langkawi race a few years ago.

In that Malaysian Tour, amongst many amazing scenes, one spectator turned up to watch with his elephant, and way up high on the elephant's back was strapped a bike rack complete with mountain bike, just as seen on the roofs of cars!

Also in that Tour, one official in a car passenger seat had his very large pet python with him, some three feet of it hanging out the car window, flickering tongue sensing the race riders arms as the car and bike passed.

Watching the next Tour de France seemed very dull in comparison afterwards.
.