Two years inside for supplying non UN38.3 batteries

[50 Hertz]

eBay don't actually own, buy or sell products, they just makes loads of money from other people doing so.

Cheers for that. Here was me thinking that eBay had a giant Aladdin's Cave type warehouse packed with every conceivable item from rubber johnnies to luxury cars. Now that I understand the eBay trading model that misconception has been dispelled.

 

[flecc]

maybe it's just ill thought out pooh from the Brussels pooh factory.

It's not European, as an IATA regulation (International Air Travel Association).

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Yes, it is a UN reg not EN.

 

[GaRRy]

eBay don't actually own, buy or sell products, they just makes loads of money from other people doing so.

As a facilitator they can still be held liable. Which is why they have a large list of things you cant sell. Knives. Ivory of any sort. Cuban cigars (or even just empty box's. bone unless specify actual animal and loads moreThey probably just dont know about this one yet. Big problem is once they find out the ban will be OTT ( eg all lithium batteries)

 

[flecc]

Interesting thought, were those exploding batteries on the Boeing 787 Dreamliners UN38.3 certified? If not, every international flight in and out would constitute two offences!

If they were certified, it doesn't say much for the safety benefits of the certification.

 

[Cyclezee]

Hi again you do seem to be more up to speed with this than I was, please would you tell me if an air cargo only carton is OK for use on Road and sea?

Many thanks,

All the best

David

The air cargo only label is just to ensure it does not find it's way onto a passenger flight, although some freight handlers have been know to ignore that when pressed for space.

In that instance, it is their responsibility if a dodgy battery explodes on an A380 full of passengers over central London....provided the paperwork is in order.

Any more info and I will have to invoice you David.

Anyway, I am not the one to give advice on legal issues and I don't want to be held liable for giving any incorrect information.

 

[trex]

don't panic. UN38.3 is compulsory when Lithium batteries are transported on their own.
The carton must also be correctly labelled.
When the battery is shipped with other equipment (installed inside or packed with), separate carton is not required and UN38.3 does not apply if the battery weighs less than 5kgs.

Everyone should insist on suppliers having proper certification though.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Flecc,

I don't think it was!

I believe they have all been changed now. I know it beggars belief but the cause of the fire was a cheap Lithium Ion Battery, hence the new insistence that all Lithium Ion batteries including watch batteries are certified. Properly built lithium ion batteries are safe.

All the best

David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

The air cargo only label is just to ensure it does not find it's way onto a passenger flight, although some freight handlers have been know to ignore that when pressed for space.

In that instance, it is their responsibility if a dodgy battery explodes on an A380 full of passengers over central London....provided the paperwork is in order.

Any more info and I will have to invoice you David.

Anyway, I am not the one to give advice on legal issues and I don't want to be held liable for giving any incorrect information.

Thanks , makes perfect sense, I will buy you a beer in Bristol!!

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Trex, I believe that if the battery is "packed with" and not "installed" in the bike the whole carton must be certified, which would cost a fortune and is unpractical. You cannot send a bike with a battery installed if a second "spare" battery is in the same carton it has to be sent as class 9 DG.

If a battery is sent installed in a bike the bike does not have to be sent as class 9 DG. However the battery itself still must be certified.

Another new one to me.... if a business imports more than 333kg of batteries, whether installed in a bike or not, the company must employ a DGSA as a consultant. In most cases that is less than 100 bikes.

All the best

David

 

[GaRRy]

This could be a bigger can of worms than which bikes are legal to ride in uk

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Good point Garry!

 

[trex]

Another new one to me.... if a business imports more than 333kg of batteries, whether installed in a bike or not, the company must employ a DGSA as a consultant. In most cases that is less than 100 bikes.

David

It true that DGSA consultants' input is required when disposing more than 333kgs of dead batteries, but no mention of good/new batteries from online EU documents.

 

[Scimitar]

Well, if I were a freighter pilot and was blithely flying along when the cockpit filled with smoke from a lithium fire in the cargo hold - I'd be pis sed off, wouldn't you?
It's happened, people have died.

 

[OldBob1]

Sorry Hatti prison is going to be fully with Bankers and NHS manager and care monitor consultants so you may have to pay a heavy fine or loose your electric bike company!!!!!
I am not holding my breath though!!!!
I think I have tele ported to another planet.

Bob

 

[103Alex1]

UN38.3 does not apply if the battery weighs less than 5kgs.

That should exempt all but heavy LiFePO4 batteries then, surely ? Even a 20Ah Li-Ion battery weighs quite a bit less than that.

 

[MikeyBikey]

Are we sure we are not mixing up IATA, ( international AIR transport association) rules versus sea or road transport? It would be difficult to check every battery on every container, on every truck and ship, eh?.. Suppose the A380 scare caused a tightening of air freight rules too, yes? But how many of you bike vendors are expensively air freighting in your 30kg bike boxes? Not many I would have thought.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

It true that DGSA consultants' input is required when disposing more than 333kgs of dead batteries, but no mention of good/new batteries from online EU documents.

Hi Trex, I have put the question to the BEBA DGSA, this was his response.

Companies that receive, unload, load or offer for transport, more than 333kgs of batteries* (in most cases less than 100 e-bike batteries), are required to appoint a DGSA (Dangerous Goods Safety Advisor). This applies whether the batteries are installed in bikes or not.

* The weight of the batteries only within any single consignment.

All the best,

David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Originally Posted by trex

UN38.3 does not apply if the battery weighs less than 5kgs.

That should exempt all but heavy LiFePO4 batteries then, surely ? Even a 20Ah Li-Ion battery weighs quite a bit less than that.

I am pretty certain that ALL Lithium Ion batteries have to be UN38.3 certified, even watch batteries. The only exemption, according to Clive, BEBA's DGSA, is for prototype batteries.

Trex, where did you read that batteries under 5kg were exempt? I would like to get Clive to look into it.

Best regards

David

 

[RoadieRoger]

Hatti you must hedge your bets with all this Lithium palaver . Contact those very nice Honda people and explain that although Forum Members on here have said nasty things about their Lead Acid E bike, they were misguided and now regret it . Please where do I sign up ?