What would happen if... 48V Alien Aurora?

[GSol]

Quick hypothetical question...

Have been offered a direct fit (physically) 48V 10Ah Li-Ion battery at a good price.
What would it do to my Alien Aurora 36V 10Ah?

If it cannot handle it, is there a modification to make it worthwhile?

 

[stesteste]

would like to know this myself also have Alien aurora , think you might need new controller have you got a link for other battery does it have same fitting cheers,,, have you done any other mods to your bike was thinking about changing chainring as I go to fast peddling sometimes
thanks

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[Fordulike]

Quick hypothetical question...

Have been offered a direct fit (physically) 48V 10Ah Li-Ion battery at a good price.
What would it do to my Alien Aurora 36V 10Ah?

If it cannot handle it, is there a modification to make it worthwhile?

Fitting a higher voltage battery will give you a slightly higher top speed, maybe another 4mph on what you achieve on the 36v battery.
Also, you will get slightly more torque for hill climbing.

Will it work, all depends on whether your controller can handle the extra voltage.
Try contacting Alien to see if they will give you the controller specs.
The other way is to open up the controller and check the large capacitors on the circuit board.
They need to be voltage rated for at least the minimum voltage that your battery provides, hot off the charger.
I modded a Cyclamatic from 24v to 36v, but the controller caps rate 50v, so that was pretty much the limit for reliability.

 

[NRG]

Move volts will mean higher top speed approx 22mph. the controller is from LSDZS but is rated as 36v, however, it uses IRF3205 FET's rated for 55v max, you would also need to open the controller up and check the capacitor voltage ratings, common values are 50v and 100v... whats the fully charge voltage of the battery? A 12 cell 48v battery is going to about 50.5v so the 55v FET rating is OK and the 50v capacitor rating will be right on the limit......one thing you will loose is the low voltage cutoff protection of the controller as this is set for a 36v battery....

 

[GSol]

Thanks for the info...
Here is a pic of the outside of the controller. Haven't had a chance to open to check ratings.

I shall open it up when I get a chance, and check the capacitor rating. If this is too low, can I replace it with a higher one, or will that cause other problems?

These are pics of the battery I have been offered (Its a Lithium Polymer type):

I haven't done any other mods to the bike yet, and would like to not explode anything

 

[Fordulike]

If yer not fussed about going faster, but want a bit more torque, then simply carrying out a shunt mod might work for you.
The 36v battery already fitted to your bike is the same one that I upgraded my Cyclamatic to.
It's capable of providing at least 20A, without worry. That controller isn't taxing it at all.
As long as the battery isn't too old, you should still have a good bit of capacity left.

Link here:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/technical/9183-cyclamatic-controller-mod-walkthrough-pics.html

 

[NRG]

The inside of the controller will look like this:

There's an old thread 'controller' where those pics came from, member jbond opened one up and noted the main input cap is 50v so you could usefully replace it with a 100v one if OK at desoldering...there are three other caps to lookout for, one on each phase, if 50v they could be upgraded as well...

 

[stesteste]

might try the shunt mod only do 10 mile commute to and from work some hilly , just a little extra boost not allot will do

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[GSol]

If yer not fussed about going faster, but want a bit more torque, then simply carrying out a shunt mod might work for you.
As long as the battery isn't too old, you should still have a good bit of capacity left.

The main reason I am looking at the 48V battery is that my current 36V battery is struggling to handle the 10mile daily commute. I now have 1 fully knackered battery and this one on its way out.

I can get the brand new 48v battery with charger for £285 delivered. I reckon that is better value (with improved performance), as I haven't found a eurolocal supplier for the 36V one at a better deal.
The same supplier sells the Alien Pulsar 36V 10AH battery only for £185 delivered, and I might get that as well, but it won't fit easily on the Aurora due to it's dimensions.

My major concern is just that I don't want to damage the controller.
So if I buy the 48V battery I should:

Check the 4 capacitors and replace with higher if they are 50V.
Solder the shunt to take advantage of the more powerful battery.
Install a separate voltmeter to know when power is running out, as the 36V ones would no longer work?

Please correct me if I got anything wrong.
Thanks to everyone who is offering advice... much appreciated! I am not overly confident in electrical mods.

 

[hech]

I have been running on 44v lipo (which is 50v freshly charged) for a couple of months using the stock 36v 6fet controller. The capacitors are also 50v and Ive had no problems so far. If the controller does let go, just get a new one and dont worry about any modding. You should get a wattmeter to keep an eye on whats happening.

 

[stesteste]

I have been running on 44v lipo (which is 50v freshly charged) for a couple of months using the stock 36v 6fet controller. The capacitors are also 50v and Ive had no problems so far. If the controller does let go, just get a new one and dont worry about any modding. You should get a wattmeter to keep an eye on whats happening.

have you got any links on Watt meter and maybe fitting instructions thanks

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[hech]

No sorry. Try ebay for a Turnigy watt meter at about £25 or much better and more expensive a cycle analyst from ebike.ca et al at bout £100. The CA will allow you to set the low voltage cut off point which is great using lipo but not so important with a bms. A Turnigy wont but it's a great wee thing for any ebike. Fitting either will require a spell with a soldering iron but less so with the CA.
One thing is that you may find the battery range at 48v to be less than at 36v, in my case from about 35m down to mebe 25miles. The upgrade really makes alot of difference though especially with a long commute every day.

 

[stesteste]

Thanks for the info...
Here is a pic of the outside of the controller. Haven't had a chance to open to check ratings.

I shall open it up when I get a chance, and check the capacitor rating. If this is too low, can I replace it with a higher one, or will that cause other problems?

These are pics of the battery I have been offered (Its a Lithium Polymer type):

I haven't done any other mods to the bike yet, and would like to not explode anything

keep us updated very interested,,,where are u getting the 48 v battery from thanks

 

[GSol]

The inside of the controller will look like this:

There's an old thread 'controller' where those pics came from, member jbond opened one up and noted the main input cap is 50v so you could usefully replace it with a 100v one if OK at desoldering...there are three other caps to lookout for, one on each phase, if 50v they could be upgraded as well...

I've opened mine and there are some concerns.
1) Mine's resistor (on the bottom left of the picture) is different, and is showing signs of overheating, the surface is burnt enough to make colour identification difficult, but it looks like brown, black, black, gold. Should I replace it with the brown green brown gold one in the picture?
2) 2 of the 50V capacitors are bulging, so I guess they are blown.
3) I have 6 50V capacitors in total, 4 that are 47microF, a 100 microF and a 1000 microF. Do I need to replace all of them to accomodate the higher voltage? Looking at the specs of the 48V battery that I have received, it could very well reach 54V fully charged.
4) There are 3 other capacitors rated for 16V and 25V, do I just leave those as is? Are they for other functions?

To be honest, I am surprised the bike was riding as well as it was in this state. Any advice?

 

[banbury frank]

Hi Just Buy one off these or buy 2 so you have a spare

48V 350W Electric Scooter Bike brushless motor Speend controller Box 48volt | eBay

Hope this Helps

Frank

 

[GSol]

Hi Just Buy one off these or buy 2 so you have a spare

48V 350W Electric Scooter Bike brushless motor Speend controller Box 48volt | eBay

Thanks, and yes I've seen a few of these, and thought about trying it, but I am worried that it may not work with all the other features on the bike, like the power modes (low medium high). The biggest worry is that I cannot seem to match those wires (colours and looms) exactly with what I have.

Also does the higher power rating (350W as opposed to 250W currently) mean the range will be decreased accordingly?
This is an easier route to take if I can find a direct replacement, but am I risking destroying the motor if I get it wrong?

 

[banbury frank]

Hi They do a 250 watt but I would over spec to 350 watts

You cant damage the motor with the controller

The colours are not a problem just post photos off the new and old controller you will get plenty off help



Frank

 

[NRG]

The bulging caps are a worry, now's the time to change them. Replace all the 50v ones with 100v rated ones of the same capacity.

Brown, black, black is a 10 Ohm resistor which does not seem right. The one pictured is 150 Ohm and what I would have expected. The resistor is there to drop the battery voltage for the 5v regulator...if you are desoldering the caps desolder one leg of the resistor, lift it and measure the resistor value. You may even have to increase it to 220 Ohm.

I can't see any issue in fitting the 150 Ohm or 220 as a replacement, you'll need to do this anyway incase you exceed the input voltage of the regulator with the new 48v battery...go for a 3 watt one.

Is your controller exactly the same as the one pictured?

 

[GSol]

The bulging caps are a worry, now's the time to change them. Replace all the 50v ones with 100v rated ones of the same capacity.

Brown, black, black is a 10 Ohm resistor which does not seem right. The one pictured is 150 Ohm and what I would have expected. The resistor is there to drop the battery voltage for the 5v regulator...if you are desoldering the caps desolder one leg of the resistor, lift it and measure the resistor value. You may even have to increase it to 220 Ohm.

I can't see any issue in fitting the 150 Ohm or 220 as a replacement, you'll need to do this anyway incase you exceed the input voltage of the regulator with the new 48v battery...go for a 3 watt one.

Is your controller exactly the same as the one pictured?

I have taken some photos... the resistor could be brown black brown, which I think would then be 100 ohm if I used the colour codes correctly? So I could go with a 150 ohm 3W replacement.

I think the controller is identical to the one previously pictured, it also has the same code printed on the board.

Totalling it all up, I should be able to buy all the parts with postage for around £10-£15 depending on which capacitors I get (85 degrees versus 105 degrees high temp red caps) and 100V versus 63V.

I am looking at the photos of the circuit more closely and it seems to be in quite a bad way compared to the other pictures. Some of the wires insulation are partially melted, and the thick blue one was half fused on the yellow one! But the insides were not touching.

Do I spend a few pounds extra and get a new 48V controller or take a chance on this one?

 

[NRG]

Its your choice I'm afraid....going with a new 48v rated controller may be a good option but you may still end up with a bit of DIY getting the connectors all matched correctly and can you retain all the features? ...but... it does open up the opportunity of a programable controller if you're interested in such things.

For me I would try and fix what you have and if it goes wrong then I'd look at an alternative....