Will Throttles be Throttled By The EU? :confused:

[Mussels]

I live in Denmark and have a throttle on my Tonaro Enduro. The chances on getting stopped on a bike in Denmark are slim.
The chances of getting stopped by a police officer who knows throttles on electric bikes are illegal are even slimmer.
It is ok making laws like this but as an ex police officer I can tell you that there are enough everyday laws without having to remember obscure electric bike laws as well.

Steve

The police where I am have a specialist bicycle unit who have ebikes in their stable* so I expect they are aware of the legislation. I've also come across riders of normal bikes who know the correct limits so it's not just an obscure hobby anymore.
FWIW I think the banning of the independent throttle has much to do with Panasonic who have used leverage to have Euro ebike rules made the same as the Japanese rules, which of course suits their market position beautifully.

 

[flecc]

I repeat, throttles have been banned in all EU countries since 10th November 2003. That was the date by which all member countries had to pass EU regulation 2002/EC24 into force, the instruction received by member governments on 9th May 2003. Like all member governments, the British parliament passed the order into law.

This had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Panasonic who barely had any presence in Europe when the order was devised in Europe in 2002 and who had only just invented their unit the year before.

I repeat as I've done so many times in this forum, the only reason we have throttles still in Britain is that our civil service failed to complete the EC24 instructions which also required that all national legislation on e-bikes was cancelled by the same date as the order was implemented. That left a loophole to continue to use the British EAPC regulations of 1983, as amended by the Road Traffic Act of 1988. We will be losing that loophole since the DfT have already archived the advice pages on the 1983 EAPC regulations, making their intentions clear.

So, once again as I've already posted above, the EU is not considering banning throttles, they are already banned. Our DfT is currently tidying up our 2003 mess and will be largely complying with the EU rules, but will not act until Europe has completed it's current review of the rules.

So the only questions now are, first, will the EU do a volte face and allow throttles to return, and second, will the DfT independently allow throttles if the EU decides against them.
.

 

[flecc]

I have read that it is almost inevitable that EU legislation will outlaw throttles on eBikes. Any info insight or views on that?

If they do, what system would fair better hub or crank, or would it make no difference?

If the banning of throttles in the UK is inevitable, does anyone have any idea when the EU/UK legislation is likely to come into force, would it be months or years?

My above post answers most of the questions Graeme, the timetable for any change is likely to be over a year yet but no-one can be certain.

Whether crank or hub motors are best when there's no throttle depends very much on the torque sensor operation, this effectively becoming the throttle. To date the crank drive units from Panasonic, Yamaha, Daum, Bosch et al have had the edge, the integration of the torque sensor and it's relative operating sophistication being much better than the crude devices used on hub motor bikes.

Things have been changing though, some of the newer independent torque sensors like that on the current Giant hub motor e-bikes have been excellent. Therefore I'd expect that improvement to be the trend, especially if there's no more throttles anywhere in Europe, this stimulating development.

 

[Graeme]

Thank you flecc for taking the time to make this clear for me, and others (again). For people like me who have very little knowledge of the eBike scene, but who are seriously considering buying an eBike it is so helpful to have people like you who take the time to share your knowledge experience and views.

 

[TwoBikes]

In case anyone gets the impression that Directive 2002/24/EC is about electric bicycles, it expressly is not. That directive is about "the type-approval of two or three-wheel motor vehicles" and only mentions electric cycles to exclude them. There are no actual regulations for electric cycles in the directive. In fact, there is no directive for electric cycles - the rules for those are left up to individual member states (but please read on).

The full text of the directive is available here:

EUR-Lex - 32002L0024 - EN

Concerning the required date of implementation, article 20 states "Member States shall bring into force before 9 May 2003 the laws, regulations and administrative provisions necessary to comply with this Directive". In fact, the UK government did not implement it until 11 December 2006. There is no requirement in the directive to repeal any national legislation. There is a requirement not to prohibit any vehicles (that is, motorcycles and mopeds) that comply with the directive.

So, what's the problem? The problem is that the exclusion clause (article 1.1(h) by the way) in Directive 2002/24/EC is not wide enough to exclude UK electric cycles with throttle-only operation. This doesn't ban them - it makes them subject to type approval. However, getting type approval for a normal UK-type electric cycle of any sort is next to impossible - the requirements are too onerous to make it practicable or financially viable.

 

[mike killay]

My guess is that the 'Law of unintended consequences' will operate, just as it has so spectacularly in the case of the 'Human Rights Act'
It will all depend on whether China continues to manufacture and export throttles. Otherwise there could be a thriving cottage industry here making them.
No Police Officer is going to fuss about throttles. They do not present any danger to anyone at all and their exclusion probably came about because a EU Civil Servant, tasked with making the law, was shown an example of an electric bike that did not have a throttle. Not being any the wiser, said Civil Servant assumed that that was how electric bikes work.
Much the same has occured with home built motor caravans that have to fit all manner of things to be re-registered, not because they are necessary, but because the person who wrote the guidelines simply listed all the things in professionally made vans. Consequently, you cannot copy yachts and hang the table by ropes from the ceiling, it has to be fitted to the floor or furniture.

 

[flecc]

There are no actual regulations for electric cycles in the directive. In fact, there is no directive for electric cycles - the rules for those are left up to individual member states.

This is surely nit-picking, specifying what does constitute an exclusion is in effect a regulation of what an electric assist bicycle is, as the extract you quote shows:

However, there are certain vehicles in this category which may be regarded as EAPCs and are exempt from both ECWVTA and MSVA. These are cycles with pedal assistance and an electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power output of not more than 0,25kW where the electrical assistance is cut off when the machine reaches a speed of 25km/h or where the cyclist stops pedalling.

That's effectively a ban on throttles.

Also please note the following:

Article 20

1. Member States shall bring into force before 9 May 2003 the laws, regulations and administrative provisions necessary to comply with this Directive. They shall forthwith inform the Commission thereof.

When Member States adopt these measures, they shall contain a reference to this Directive or be accompanied by such reference on the occasion of their official publication. Methods of making such reference shall be laid down by Member States.

2. Member States shall apply the provisions referred to in paragraph 1, first subparagraph, as from 9 November 2003. However, at the request of the manufacturer the previous model of the certificate of conformity may still be used for 12 months thereafter.

Almost in accordance with the instruction, parliament passed this into law on 10th November 2003, one day late as I said above and not in 2006.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

After several meetings with the DfT over the last 12 months my understanding of the law is as follows;

Throttles are currently legal in UK and Europe on EPACs. In UK up to 25kph and in Europe up to 6kph. In Europe the throttle may still work from 6 to 25kph as long as the pedals are simply rotating in a forward direction. The pedals do not need to be powering the bike at all.

Wisper bikes are all certified to the latest European standard EN15194 and all our bikes except the 805fe have independent throttles to 6kph. EN15194 is likely to be adopted in the UK sometime soon although no one knows exactly when. When the EU regs are eventually adopted in the UK the throttle will still be legal up to 6kph.

Wispers sold in the UK arrive conforming to the EU regs but can easily and legally be modified to give independent throttle use up to 15mph. According to the DfT because of "Grandfather Rights" bikes able to use throttle independently up to 15mph will remain to be legal even when EN15194 is adopted here although all new bikes will only be able to use the throttle independently up to 6kph.

The 6kph rule is superb as it enables riders of hub drive bikes to have instant power to get the bike moving away from the lights etc.

Bet regards

David

 

[banbury frank]

Hi

David I don't think we have to worry about the EU its going BUST just as well we have not taken the Euro

and kept our Pound

Keep up the good work on keeping the Throttle and removing the power limit .
We should have work Horses to get around with and be able to climb hills .

Most states in the USA allow 1,000 watts 22 mph some 30 mph without any major problems


Frank

 

[Steady]

Hi,
I like the idea of keeping the throttle and upping the power limits. If we use electric instead of gas guzzlers we are still saving the planet and more people might take up electric bikes. As long as people ride safely I can't see a problem.

Steady

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I agree Steady, a 700W motor would drive a low speed EPAC (15mph) up most hills with most people on them but keep the speed limit to 15.5mph. We could use the same basic model as the High Speed EPAC capable of 30 mph, of course the HSE would need to be licensed and the rider would need a full licence.

All the best

David

 

[flecc]

Of course we already have a suitable class, the Low Powered Moped one. This is intended for pedal assist bikes and is also limited to 15.5 mph, but permits up to 1000 watts with independent throttle control so is ideal for the physically disadvantaged.

These do have to be registered and type approved and the rider has to have a moped (P1) licence. However, those with a car driving licence prior to February 2002 are pre-qualified, and that will include the majority of those currently interested. Road tax is free and moped insurance cost minimal.

I don't see registration and a driving licence as the big deal so many seem to treat it as. Back in the 1950s all power assisted bicycles had to be registered and number plated, riders had to have a full motorcycle licence and had to pay annual road tax, but that didn't stop well over a million appearing on British roads then, about ten times the number of e-bikes we have now.

Of course we need one or more manufacturers to actually produce and type approve such machines so they are available to buy. If they were, I think we'd hear less bleating about e-bike restrictions on power and throttles.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Tony, I am obviously (and rather embarrassingly ) "to close to the trees" at the moment!

I don't know the low powered moped reg, I will look it up now, but if you have any pointers I would be very grateful.

Many thanks Mr Guru!!!

Best regards

David

 

[flecc]

Of course David. If you scroll down on the link below you'll see at the head of the motorcycle section the specification for type approval of a Low Powered Moped:

SVA Type Approval classes and fees

There's more information about SVA on the following link, including a what is inspected link at the foot. Although different from manufacturer requirements, this may give useful indicators:

SVA scheme

P.S. I understand this is a Europe wide class.
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[Wisper Bikes]

Many thanks Tony!

Best regards

David

 

[Mussels]

Of course David. If you scroll down on the link below you'll see at the head of the motorcycle section the specification for type approval of a Low Powered Moped:

SVA Type Approval classes and fees

There's more information about SVA on the following link, including a what is inspected link at the foot. Although different from manufacturer requirements, this may give useful indicators:

SVA scheme

P.S. I understand this is a Europe wide class.

I don't mind in principle having a registered bike if the insurance was low but there are lots of other complications that go with it.

• I would need a motorbike parking space, these are harder to find and often have to be paid for.
• I would have to wear a crash helmet, this would make the cycling part uncomfortable.
• I would expect lots of letters from the police after people make a note of my registration number.

Considering those (sepecially the crash helmet) I would just opt for a full on electric scooter, except I wouldn't because of the range/charging problems so I'd get a petrol moped instead.
Personally I feel the quest for changing the law is moot because it is already provided for as flecc says, people are trying to find a way for PTWs to be declassified and that's not going to happen.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Andrew, the crash helmet we have been told would simply need to be a top pf the range cycle helmet to a yet unknown EN standard, insurance would be very low because any third party damage caused by such a bike would in the majority of cases be very light. The bike we are currently working on looks less like an electric bike than our current models so parking and police interest would be minimal.

All the best

David

 

[flecc]

• I would need a motorbike parking space, these are harder to find and often have to be paid for.
• I would have to wear a crash helmet, this would make the cycling part uncomfortable.
• I would expect lots of letters from the police after people make a note of my registration number.

I don't think these would be a problem in practice. In appearance these would just be e-bikes with a rear number plate and wearing a Casco type cycle helmet would pass for ok.

In my area moped riders often park next to bike racks without any problems from PCSOs or Council Parking Enforcement Officers, so an e-bike type would definitely get away with that.

Powered bikes with number plates never caused complaint letters in the past that I knew of. The mere fact of looking like a bike and having pedals or being pedalled I'd think would avoid this problem if the rider is cycling normally. The police don't take action on letters about petty offences anyway, it's tough enough getting them to attend a serious incident!

N.B. Crossed with Wisper posting.
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[Alex728]

I don't see registration and a driving licence as the big deal so many seem to treat it as. Back in the 1950s all power assisted bicycles had to be registered and number plated, riders had to have a full motorcycle licence and had to pay annual road tax, but that didn't stop well over a million appearing on British roads then, about ten times the number of e-bikes we have now.

For younger people (and even those who aren't so young, a lady at work in her 40s was complaining about the very same thing, as she rides a moped and was curious about the Wisper) the issue is that if you have to do a CBT (I think the only got the moped quite recently) this expires after 2 years.

As far as I am aware, no other EU country has this restriction. Many other countries, even those claimed to have more liberal moped laws have recently introduced a CBT-style test, which is understandable on safety grounds but once you have it it seems to permanently qualify you to ride this smaller class of powered two wheeler (not big motorbikes).

it is this concept of a qualification based upon skills you would build on every day (with increasing road experience) expiring after an arbitrary time at the whim of a government that I disagree with, not the issue of licensing per se or even the concept of the CBT. The most sensible thing would be to revamp it into a full small moped license for EU "AM" only, which some EU nations have already done.

 

[flecc]

I agree we are restrictive in this country Alex, but for the purposes of the low powered moped class which is effectively a higher powered e-bike, this isn't much of an issue. E-bike ownership is predominantly by the upper end of the age spectrum, so most will be pre-qualified. I'd guess at least two thirds of the our membership, plus most of the general population who have passed 35 years old will have either a moped licence, a motorcycle licence or a car driving licence gained before February 2001.

The other issues are very much easier than with the powered bikes of the 1950s.

Then a driving licence form had to filled in and sent off every year to renew it at a fee of 15 shillings (equivalent to £25 now). Now it's a one off life licence to 75 years.

Then the road tax had to be applied for annually by filling in a form and queueing at Post Offices or Local Taxation offices and the tax paid for. Now we can renew online with a few clicks and it's free.

In both the above cases there were no reminders issued like now, if you forgot you were in trouble.

And for the few who don't have one of the suitable driving licences, CBT isn't such a big issue. We've just gained three more 16 year olds in our road belting around on noisy mopeds, all three passed the driving test first time, something I've noticed frequently over recent years. It seems that because of the CBT training the first time pass rate is very much higher than it is for car drivers who often have to have two, three or more tests with the expense of further lessons. And if almost all 16 year olds can do it so easily, I'm sure the few older people without suitable licences can.
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