Will Throttles be Throttled By The EU? :confused:

[Mussels]

I'm not sure if you can do a CBT with a bike that only does 15mph, there might be an issue with not being able to reach adequate speeds. Also when I did my CBT it was people 50+ that had a lot of difficulty and the only ones that failed.

Edit: The BMW C1 is banned as a test vehicle and electric bikes aren't mentioned but given the manoeuvres required for the test it's likely an ebike is unsuitable.

 

[Alex728]

Did you mean passing a car license test or full motorcycle test? I suspect in any case the two years practical road experience on two wheels (including being made to face up to their own vulnerability) is a major reason why these young people have a higher driving test pass rate as much as the CBT itself - so a revamped "type AM" license might even mean that they get 3 or more years practical experience and become even better drivers.

I certainly wouldn't want to see a free for all like the Chinese are now having to deal with, nor even the situation in some Continental European countries where there is in fact a comparatively high death toll of young people on mopeds, but a combination of privacy laws (particularly those aimed at protecting under 18s) and political correctness keep a lot of bad news out of the media even if you read it in the native languages, painting a far rosier picture of certain countries than is the real case.

I still think a revamped "type AM" license and test introduced at the same time as e-mopeds (perhaps similar to the German S class) would still be something worth lobbying for as it could also grow a market for companies like Wisper and Ultra Motor - and there would be more of a chance of this than having small e-mopeds declassified from licensing.

 

[flecc]

This isn't the case Mussels. Just as with previous introductions the testers have to make provision for the new type. Imagine in the 1950s when people on bicycles turned up with a tiny motor in or on the wheel to take a full motorcycle test. The testers had to cope, they had no other option.

And it's largely irrelevant too, as I've said, most who are interested in powered bikes have suitable licences already. It will be some years before appreciable numbers aren't pre-qualified, by which time the low powered class could be well known and provided for. Europe is currently including it within te new legislation and that is likely to make it more likely to happen.

I wasn't referring to 50 year olds who as said are mostly pre-qualified, but to those older than 16 year olds who might not yet have a suitable licence.

I don't understand why there is such determination to make this seem impossible, it isn't and as I've pointed out, for the majority pre-qualified it's very much easier than it ever was in the past.
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[Mussels]

I don't understand why there is such determination to make this seem impossible, it isn't and as I've pointed out, for the majority pre-qualified it's very much easier than it ever was in the past.
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I'm not trying to make it impossible, I just fail to see it as a viable choice. It has the disadvantages of a pushbike coupled with the disadvantages of a scooter. I'm all for expanding the market but the USP of the ebike is lost in this model.

 

[flecc]

Well that is where we have to disagree, since I think this could have far more potential than our present e-bikes have. How?

Well first there's the well known fact that the British majority are averse to pedalling. They couldn't wait to drop the inadequately powered bikes of the '50s in favour of twist-and-go scooters. For most pedalling as an option, yes, but as a necessity, not if they can help it!

Then there's the evidence in this forum. Time and time again people come in and say they want a bike that can power them up hills, regularly they add they don't want to pedal too much, almost universally they want a throttle and many want to power from a standstill, even uphill. Our present e-bikes don't get near to managing those wants, but one with a 1000 watt motor can. All this is especially true of those who are well overweight, and that's a self-confessed very high proportion of new members.

Those with such requirements could have a choice in future, without a rear number plate and not meeting their needs, or with one and able to provide what they want.

It will still be a bicycle just a touch heavier than present e-bikes, but that's not too important anyway. There's a world of difference between the minority who enjoy cycling as you do Mussels, and indeed as many of us in here do, but we are a tiny minority as I've so often pointed out. We are the enthusiasts, out of over 100,000 e-bikers out there, most of them just utility users who often have twist-and-go scooter style e-bikes. Well under than 5000 e-bikers are members, many not in Britain and many of them were only momentarily members anyway.

So that's what I'm interested in, the majority public, particularly the pre-qualified, who are unlikely to ever own a present type of e-bike. The fact of registration would potentially expand e-bike dealer's businesses since this lends itself more to retail premises than online, and the expansion into an additional class could grow this forum considerably. I think you might be averse to including them, but I'm strongly in favour since so many members already ask for these provisions on e-bikes.

 

[mike killay]

I have driven cars and motor cycles all my lfe, including a cyclemaster. If I want to go some distance I will use my car or campervan. I want a cycle that does not require too much pedalling. I don't any longer want to kit up in helmet, goggles or visor, scarf, jacket and trousers just to go out on a bike. I want to go gently along the bike paths, seeing nature as I go. I find my Tonaro suits me 99% of the time, just that it could do with a little more power for 1 in 5 hills. I would agree with Flecc about a higher powered e-bike, just as long as it legally remained a bike (even with a number plate) so that I could use the bike paths. Such a bike with a 15 mph limit would suit me fine.
Instead of 1000 watt motors, it may be that a supplementary motor wound and limited to say 6 mph, just for hills might be an answer. battery weight is no longer a problem. Two 10 amp batteries are not a burden.

 

[flecc]

Legally the class I'm speaking of is a low powered moped, though it is a bike in practice. In most European countries these can use cyclepaths since, like e-bikes, the are limited to 15.5 mph.

The new EU regulations appear to be expanding on these low powered classes and I've no doubt all sorts of special provisions will be made for them. Since our DfT is waiting for the EU to complete before finalising their own regulations, we should be included in the same provisions.

 

[Mussels]

Legally the class I'm speaking of is a low powered moped, though it is a bike in practice. In most European countries these can use cyclepaths since, like e-bikes, the are limited to 15.5 mph.

I thought the S class wasn't allowed to use cycle paths etc, if they can then that is a big benefit. The automated penalty farms in London won't be able to cope though and I'd expect a few S.172s through the post.

 

[flecc]

The S class is banned on speed since their assist limit is 40 kph (25 mph). The Low Powered Moped bike class is assist limited to 15.5 mph like our unregistered e-bikes. In effect riding one is no different from any e-bike, other than the power to climb hills well and making pedalling optional.

As ever though, practice and law differ, so many of our S class owning members use bike paths and shared pavements.

 

[flecc]

Adding to the above, I see the real value of the Low Powered Moped class being in the hilly parts of the country such as the Peak District, North Downs, Devon, much of Wales and Scotland and many others. In those sort of areas the concerns you raise about bike path use etc really won't be a problem in the way it might be in parts of London.

Even in my outer London borough I don't see the problems you see. Here even petrol mopeds and motorbikes travel the away-from-road cyclepaths and bridleways with impunity, and in the local large nature reserve where all bicycles are banned, even whole families ride them at weekends with no problems. In fact there and on pavements, that's the only time they are seen on bikes, the kids mostly banned by their parents from riding on the roads.

 

[TwoBikes]

In case it helps, mopeds aren't prohibited from all cycle tracks. Local authorities with cycle track systems (not cycle lanes on roads) that existed before the Cycle Tracks Act 1984 were allowed to permit continued use by mopeds. Stevenage did so, at the strong suggestion of the local police, who said that shifting the mopeds onto the roads amongst all the other traffic would be dangerous. Stevenage cycle path signs therefore all say "and mopeds". However, in the city where I live now, the cycle path signs say "No mopeds".

 

[flecc]

Thanks TwoBikes, that's an interesting case. It would be good to know how widespread that practice is.

I'm afraid signs of any sort only last very briefly in my area, so paths have few indicators of correct usage. It seems the young regard all signs as a threat that have to be destroyed as a matter of urgency. It matters not how strong they are, even thick steel sheet mounted on welded scaffold tube quickly succumbs to their attacks and the authorities have largely given up providing them.