Your views on possible Woosh crank drive kit

[Woosh]

Having had quite a bit of interest in our chain drive bikes, I am thinking of possibly offering a kit.
This would consist obviously of the motor, controller and battery with optional handlebar controls, and would perhaps (perhaps) be offered through bike shops. Cost to customer circa £500 or £600 through the shops.
However, our supplier is saying that many donor bike frames may be too weak for their motor, so can foresee problems if lighter weight bikes are converted.
Furthermore, a small 5mm notch needs to be cut into the bottom bracket tube to key the motor into the frame.
If that is the case we would have to specify that the work needs to be carried out by LBS or professionals....messy.

Would be interested in your views everyone.

 

[Old_Dave]

As with a lot of things... Buying the kit is the easy part, doing the work and having the tools is the hard bit.

The kinda best / easiest crank drive kits to date for retro fitting are by GNG but even they have their 'issues' that are dependent upon the frame they are fitted to, and even hub drive kits can require frame drop outs modifications, so maybe (as gng do) show the step by step mechanical fitting and let the purchaser decide.

Golden opportunity to also sell 5mm square files

Bottom line.. Let they that can do the job.. do the job, let those who can't.. find a man that can, lol

Drink tea and relax

Edit: I think that there should be an option to purchase the motor & hardware with or with out battery


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[hoppy]

Seems too dear compared to your excellent value CD bikes.I can understand why but to me it's not worth it!

 

[muckymits]

That sort of price puts it close to a complete bike, but I would be still interested in a motor if I can get the other bits from you as in the PMs.

As Daves says

'Bottom line.. Let they that can do the job do the job, let those who can't find a man that can'

David

 

[jazper53]

I think Woosh need to rethink not only about the price range of the kit, in relation to the completed stock bike, but the design of the DIY KIT package which should be based on ease of build, and aim to have a universal fit to most standard frames. IMHO

 

[DCUK6]

Cant give any recommendations as im still new to this tech but can say that i was looking for one last night.

 

[Old_Dave]

Cost to customer circa £500 or £600 through the shops.

Through the shops = another profit margin has to be added.. which I'm not sure the kit can stand when taking the price of the complete bike.

Taking away the extra shop profit and then considering all the parts that were in the original price with vat and p&p, then maybe its not far from the right ball park.. the price has to be based upon the closest competition with an adjustment (upwards, lol) for the additional features and content..... but I'm sure that you have already done this

 

[50 Hertz]

You might sell a few at that price to die hard enthusiasts. The frame modification and caution required with regard to frame strength will put off the average knob-head. It's the average knob-head who will represent your main customer base.

 

[flecc]

I think the benefit of the small number of sales may be more than offset by the problems they cause.

Sunstar have been in this better class of crank drive kit market for years with the SO1, SO2 and now SO3 kits, but have never made an impression. Most have never even heard of them.

 

[Old_Dave]

Most have never even heard of them.

I've never heard of them.

EDIT: I have now, lol

For our avid readers here is their installation video.. Maybe I could do one for Hatti, along with shakey hands and dropping nuts and bolts all over the place

[video=youtube_share;u5Mo56_D50g]http://youtu.be/u5Mo56_D50g[/video]

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I can't see why the supplier is saying that some frames are too weak. Are they using the notch just to stop that end of the BB turning while you tighten the other end? If they're using it to resist the torque of the motor, that would make some sense, but my understanding is that you could use a tie-bar on one of the motor studs as a torque arm, so hardly any stress on the frame with an appropriate bracket.

You could sell just the motor assemblies, which would free you from all the liabilities of the complete kit. You could get a few, and enthusiasts on the forum can have a a play to see what's involved, and if they give the thumbs up, get some more and see how it goes, or develop it into a DIY kit.

Sunstar are hardly known because:
They didn't have a UK agent 'til recently
Their system is very expensive
Their system is relatively weak- power-wise
It has a rather fierce cut-off at 15mph, that feels like you've got an electrical problem.

 

[Old_Dave]

If they're using it to resist the torque of the motor, that would make some sense,

That's how I reckoned it.

but my understanding is that you could use a tie-bar on one of the motor studs as a torque arm, so hardly any stress on the frame with an appropriate bracket.

That's got to be the best method

and enthusiasts on the forum can have a a play to see what's involved

Dibs

 

[Woosh]

Thanks everyone,

All good feedback.
If you want more details have a look on our website (click on this link Woosh CD kit).
Very much a project at this stage but a pretty serious one!

Hatti

 

[Old_Dave]

Wow... your well ahead on the 'project'

 

[jazper53]

I am thinking of possibly offering a kit.


That was quick
Putting a waiver on product warranties, if frame is not modified and parts installed by a qualified set-up, which most DIY-ers would not qualify or likely to want to commission, as the project could end up costing more than the stock bike. Seems like throwing a big spanner in the works.

 

[Woosh]

I can't see why the supplier is saying that some frames are too weak. Are they using the notch just to stop that end of the BB turning while you tighten the other end? If they're using it to resist the torque of the motor, that would make some sense, but my understanding is that you could use a tie-bar on one of the motor studs as a torque arm, so hardly any stress on the frame with an appropriate bracket.

You could sell just the motor assemblies, which would free you from all the liabilities of the complete kit. You could get a few, and enthusiasts on the forum can have a a play to see what's involved, and if they give the thumbs up, get some more and see how it goes, or develop it into a DIY kit.

Sunstar are hardly known because:
They didn't have a UK agent 'til recently
Their system is very expensive
Their system is relatively weak- power-wise
It has a rather fierce cut-off at 15mph, that feels like you've got an electrical problem.

d8veh,

We did ask the manufacturer to provide us with an attachment similar to your idea of the torque arm. Their reply was no and sent us the test schedule saying that they would have to re-run the tests (100,000 simulated km, 5000 km on gravel roads etc). If we make the torque arm ourselves, we will have problems with product liability insurance. Of course, an engineer can do differently.

Hatti

 

[Geebee]

I will be verrrryyyy interested , preferably if the option of no battery is available.
If you go ahead with the project I suggest letting bentrideronline.com know, as fitting this kind of thing to a recumbent is safe and easy, just make another boom and fit the crank drive or buy a spare boom from the manufacturer and then you can swap between assist or not.
Just checked the Woosh site, looks like a quick install, Hatti how much to ship to Australia?
And can it be adjusted for a 20" wheel?

 

[johnc461165]

I will be verrrryyyy interested , preferably if the option of no battery is available.
If you go ahead with the project I suggest letting bentrideronline.com know, as fitting this kind of thing to a recumbent is safe and easy, just make another boom and fit the crank drive or buy a spare boom from the manufacturer and then you can swap between assist or not.
Just checked the Woosh site, looks like a quick install, Hatti how much to ship to Australia?

Yes the no battery option would be very interesting

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I had a closer look at the Woosh Sirocco CD and made a few adjustments to it to see how the kit might perform.

The controller and panel are standard sensorless. The wiring is a tiny bit unusual because it has the harness arrangement, but it could easily be adapted. I switched the controller for a BMSBattery 15 amp KU65. The pedal sensor doesn't work with it, but that's nor really a problem. You could probably fit a standard magnet disk, but you'd still get the problem of clanky gear-changing. I soldered about half the shunt to get the current up to about 19 or 20 amps (guess from experience). I used a standard thumb throttle.

I tried the bike round the block, which involves a fairly steep hill. With the new controller, all speed limits were freed, so the no-load speed went up to 27mph in top gear. On the road, there was noticeably more power, but not as strong as a GNG Gen2. It could now pull my 100kg up the steep hill on throttle only at about 8mph without pedalling. Acceleration in the higher gears was not fantastic, but it kept accelerating down a slight hill. I didn't get a chance to test the top speed on the flat, but I reckon about 21 to 22 mph if no wind. The motor was still pretty quiet, and after about 5 minutes at full throttle up and down hills, the motor was warm. but not hot, and the controller hardly warm. I think that this is about the safe limit for current. I might make an adapter tomorrow to be able to measure the current. The battery was sagging quite a bit at full current according to the LEDs on the 790 panel. On the plus side, you could make perfect gear-changes because the throttle was instant, so just cut the throttle when you change up like on a motorbike. Like this, the bike was very pleasant to ride and I could ride everywhere without pedalling, although I'm sure that a lot of current was being consumed from the battery like that.

To summarise. If Woosh sold the kit the same as that fitted to the CD, You'd get a bike with a 24 mph speed limit, which is the practical limit for the motor anyway. You don't need to use the pedal sensor. I'd leave it disconnected. You could solder the shunt to get enough power for steep hills and a bit more speed at the expense of range. If you solder the shunt, you'd need a more powerful battery than the standard one. The end result would be quieter and more powerful than the Sunstar and a lot more refined than the GNG, though not as powerful. There wouldn't be any advantage of using an after-market controller. The standard one would be fine up to about 20 amps - maybe drill some holes in the plastic compartment for better cooling, but would probably be OK

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I also had a look at how to avoid cutting notches in the bottom bracket. It would be very simple to make a bracket from the chain-guard fixings to a shoe on the frame with a jubilee clip round it a bit like the GNG one. Here's the photos: