Advise sort on a my new Bird

[Baz the balloon man]

Hi all .

So I bought a new bird e bike spares or repair no battery with the bike from one of the larger outlets on e bay.

I have been talking to a manufacturer in China but we are a little unsure on the following.

The UK bikes seem to have a battery that is 9.6 AH but there are Two types of battery the other being around 14 AH roughly.

They are not compatible so I think the 9.6 is a UK version with Canbus communications.

Does any one know if all the uk bikes sold by Halfords and others are all the 9.6 AH ?

The guy in China has now said the bigger battery will work with a Bafang Mid drive kit so I am now assuming the bigger battery has no Can bus so should work with say KT controller and LCD if I wanted to go a different way .

Apparently he said the battery that fits can not be remade to 48 V

Which suits me better as I have started selling my birds e components on e bay as they are difficult to find and I want to try an up graded of components.

I think it will make an interesting build as I suspect people who have bought Birds in the uk may struggle to repair if say there BMS packs up on the battery.
As I am not sure yet if this company actually has the 9.6 AH BMS.

Cheers
Baz

 

[saneagle]

Hi all .

So I bought a new bird e bike spares or repair no battery with the bike from one of the larger outlets on e bay.

I have been talking to a manufacturer in China but we are a little unsure on the following.

The UK bikes seem to have a battery that is 9.6 AH but there are Two types of battery the other being around 14 AH roughly.

They are not compatible so I think the 9.6 is a UK version with Canbus communications.

Does any one know if all the uk bikes sold by Halfords and others are all the 9.6 AH ?

The guy in China has now said the bigger battery will work with a Bafang Mid drive kit so I am now assuming the bigger battery has no Can bus so should work with say KT controller and LCD if I wanted to go a different way .

Apparently he said the battery that fits can not be remade to 48 V

Which suits me better as I have started selling my birds e components on e bay as they are difficult to find and I want to try an up graded of components.

I think it will make an interesting build as I suspect people who have bought Birds in the uk may struggle to repair if say there BMS packs up on the battery.
As I am not sure yet if this company actually has the 9.6 AH BMS.

Cheers
Baz

You don't need to assume anything. Dumb batteries have only two power wires connected to the output connector. Very occasionally, they'll double them up to 4 pins with each pair having the same thick wires, black and red. Any battery with comms will have extra wires fitted to the connector, and those wires are normally thin.

Also, you can look at the controller side connector to see what wires are attached to it. Sometimes, though not common, one side of the connector has the extra wires, but not the other. In that case, there can be no comms between the controller and the battery. Instead, the connector can be used for diagnostics. The BH Emotion Neos were like that way back in 2012.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

I have some photos definitely looks like comms wires in the back of discharge plug .
And some time ago when I did find the batteries on Aliexpress now gone they definitely said the Two sizes of batteries where not compatible.

Controller has a miniature version of Juliet so you can not see them that end .

I will just air drop the photos from my phone an attach them on here .

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Tomorrow LOL

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Morning
I think it has Canbus communication here are some pictures.
The battery plug also has multiple pins .

The LCD and PAS just seem to be small Julet five and three pin.

It has a separate alarm lead

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Looking forward to doing something different with this bike as the Vanmooth style frame seems to be liked and popular.

Need to sell all the existing e components first to buy the new kit .

Just waiting for the battery guy in China to confirm the 14AH battery is standard comms though or it may be a problem then the whole bike will be sold as spares .

 

[Baz the balloon man]

You don't need to assume anything. Dumb batteries have only two power wires connected to the output connector. Very occasionally, they'll double them up to 4 pins with each pair having the same thick wires, black and red. Any battery with comms will have extra wires fitted to the connector, and those wires are normally thin.

Also, you can look at the controller side connector to see what wires are attached to it. Sometimes, though not common, one side of the connector has the extra wires, but not the other. In that case, there can be no comms between the controller and the battery. Instead, the connector can be used for diagnostics. The BH Emotion Neos were like that way back in 2012.

Morning mate
Different subject I read one of your posts that said Carrera battery’s should have over 40V at the discharge port .
I have been trying to help a local guy out with his Arrears Vengence bike his battery is the older one picture attached but it’s only
38.6 v at the discharge port nearly fully charged .

Is this correct as we are getting very weak or no power to the motor I have tested the motor and it is fine.
I can not see any problem with the PAS had it off inspected it and I have double checked all the connections are good.

It’s the battery with the 10s BMS same as the one I shorted in my first battery wake up attempt.

No error codes but the bike seems to be be showing speed it’s not doing with the motor starting up but then cutting out completely.

 

[Sparksandbangs]

This title makes my eyes bleed.

 

[chris_n]

This title makes my eyes bleed.

Mine too, I cringe every time I see it.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

What’s up don’t you like my new Bird

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Hopefully when she’s finished she will be a good ride

 

[saneagle]

Morning mate
Different subject I read one of your posts that said Carrera battery’s should have over 40V at the discharge port .
I have been trying to help a local guy out with his Arrears Vengence bike his battery is the older one picture attached but it’s only
38.6 v at the discharge port nearly fully charged .

Is this correct as we are getting very weak or no power to the motor I have tested the motor and it is fine.
I can not see any problem with the PAS had it off inspected it and I have double checked all the connections are good.

It’s the battery with the 10s BMS same as the one I shorted in my first battery wake up attempt.

No error codes but the bike seems to be be showing speed it’s not doing with the motor starting up but then cutting out completely.

The Carrera batteries that have comms won't show the full voltage until switched on. If there's any doubt, open the battery and check the voltage from the cell-pack, then check the individual cell voltages on the multi-pin connector/s. A 36v battery should have close to 42v when fully charged. if yours is

 

[Baz the balloon man]

The Carrera batteries that have comms won't show the full voltage until switched on. If there's any doubt, open the battery and check the voltage from the cell-pack, then check the individual cell voltages on the multi-pin connector/s. A 36v battery should have close to 42v when fully charged. if yours is

Thanks I miss understood your post I googled it so as the batteries discharge then the output voltage goes down as the battery discharges.

So when these Batteries drop to under 10v they go to sleep I have found that out already.

Although no fault code I suspect it’s the PAS but no worries now I am putting a YOSE kit on the bike for him .
And I could not find any obvious fault stripping it all out . Old bike in good condition though .

Back to my Bird I think the uk ones have 9.6AH I have been asking other Bird owners and so far I have found none that have the 14AH battery .

Once I get time to get the Crank off I can see which if any mid drive motors fit .

TS or Bafang how do you rate them against each other at the 250W range ?

 

[saneagle]

TS or Bafang how do you rate them against each other at the 250W range ?

They're both about the same as each other and both a lot worse than a hub-motor at 48v with a KT controller.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

TS or Bafang how do you rate them against each other at the 250W range ?

My sister is using the tongsheng 48v Tsdz8 (Woosh has a version which is rated 250w ) and she's doing 60 mile rides with 5000 ft of ascent with no problems, all her friends with Yamaha and Bosch motored bikes are a bit jealous, it's very powerful.

There's reports of overheating problems with the 250w tsdz2 at higher power levels for sustained periods. I don't think @saneagle has had any problems though

The Bafang BBS01 comes in versions using UART Comms (which is easily programmable) and can bus (which isn't). There is a parameter Keep Current, that is set to a percentage and the power decays to this level that makes it a bit gutless, but you can override it to keep it at 80% or 100%

I'm not sure why it ships with such a low setting of Keep Current , overheating ? There's a few people here overriden that setting and don't think they have had any problems

 

[saneagle]

There's reports of overheating problems with the 250w tsdz2 at higher power levels for sustained periods. I don't think @saneagle has had any problems though

Yes, my 48v TSDZ2 works fine. I've taken it up some very long fairly steep hills and not had any problems with over-heating. What I don't like about it and any other crank-drive is that the ride is generally horrible by comparison with a hub-motor. It's noisy and agricultural, plus I hate the crunching gears, and it's slower.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

My sister is using the tongsheng 48v Tsdz8 (Woosh has a version which is rated 250w ) and she's doing 60 mile rides with 5000 ft of ascent with no problems, all her friends with Yamaha and Bosch motored bikes are a bit jealous, it's very powerful.

There's reports of overheating problems with the 250w tsdz2 at higher power levels for sustained periods. I don't think @saneagle has had any problems though

The Bafang BBS01 comes in versions using UART Comms (which is easily programmable) and can bus (which isn't). There is a parameter Keep Current, that is set to a percentage and the power decays to this level that makes it a bit gutless, but you can override it to keep it at 80% or 100%

I'm not sure why it ships with such a low setting of Keep Current , overheating ? There's a few people here overriden that setting and don't think they have had any problems

Thanks Peter once I get the BB out I will see what will fit I will check out price difference I just waiting for the battery invoice and confirmation that the 14AH Bird Battery will not have Canbus comms.

The battery guy in China says the Bird Battery can not be manufactured in 48V as not enough room larger for cell groups as I wanted to go 48v with it if it actually can I was going to try get an empty case and standard BMS and get the battery company to build a 48V here.

So UART Comms will need a Bafang LCD ? If so do Bafang do password protect by the end user ?

First step is to get BB out and check dimensions

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Yes, my 48v TSDZ2 works fine. I've taken it up some very long fairly steep hills and not had any problems with over-heating. What I don't like about it and any other crank-drive is that the ride is generally horrible by comparison with a hub-motor. It's noisy and agricultural, plus I hate the crunching gears, and it's slower.

What is your opinion on the Bafang Rear Hub already on it ? With a 14AH battery and possibly a second rear rack battery for extra range I think a 17Amp KT controller will fit in the frame where the Bird one came out.
If I can not go 48V with the original battery

Actually I must have a look at the difference between the Bird Bafang motor and the Pendalton rear hub Bafang motors I have

 

[Baz the balloon man]

I just found out from reading a chaps add on GT that the Bird Bafang Rear hub is actually a 500W motor that is restricted I assume with the Bird controller which is good news so I probably keep it on the bike.

That makes me now wonder if the new 4 Bafang Rear hub motors I have in stock from the Somerby Pendalton old bike but new unused motors are also in fact 500W but also factory marked as 250W does any one know if this is the case ?

 

[Sparksandbangs]

In my limited experience checking the motor drawings of Bafang hubs shows that the 500W and 250W motors have different dimensions. The 250/350W tend to be identical. You would of course have to know the model numbers to check this.