New controller with display for Fano-Tex FT-7009E with Bafang 36V front wheel motor?

[Tobias Claren]

Hello.

I own a Fano-Tec FT-7009E.
It has a Bafang 36V front wheel motor.
Controller G3M20211-1592-16 and the simple LED880 display.

Now, after cleaning, the motor no longer works.
There was a little water in the controller plugs.
Even after blowing it out and heating it up for a long time with a hair dryer, nothing has changed.

Now would be a good opportunity not only to buy an identical replacement (€6), but to see if there is something better available.
Of course, this should still be worthwhile for a cheap tricycle from China.

What would you recommend here?


Thank you.

 

[saneagle]

Can you show the controller label and a picture of ALL the wires and connectors spread out so that we can see what it is.

Water shouldn't damage anything unless you got in in the 5-way connector that goes to the 880 panel. Before anything, check that the motor connector is in ALL THE WAY TO THE MARKED LINE, not just in tight. 1mm short can cause non-function.

 

[Tobias Claren]

Here is the controller:


The Cables:



The thick white 5-pin plug is very firmly seated with hot glue.
It no longer worked after cleaning.
The cables were not moved at any time.
After drying, I pressed all the plugs firmly into each other.

 

[saneagle]

Here is the controller:
View attachment 64119

The Cables:
View attachment 64120
View attachment 64121

The thick white 5-pin plug is very firmly seated with hot glue.
It no longer worked after cleaning.
The cables were not moved at any time.
After drying, I pressed all the plugs firmly into each other.

Are they tide marks on the controller. Looking at those and the corrosion on the screws and plates, it looks like the bottom corner of the controller has been under water a lot and at least one time half of the whole box has been submerged. Is that right?

I can tell you now that you'll be very lucky to get a plug in replacement for that controller, even though I still can't see all the wires. You might as well get one with an LCD.

 

[Tobias Claren]

No, the controller is completely dry in the photo.
It always worked, even during and after rain.
It only stopped working after being cleaned with a damp cloth.
The controller and cables were in a plastic bag that was secured to the cable harness with a cable tie.
The plugs were damp inside.
But there was no water in the bag.

The buttons and LED display on the LED-880 are working:

Could it still be that only the LED880 is defective?

 

[Nealh]

Pretty much std generic Bafang speed controller, replace with a nice KT model with LCD for better user experience.

Test the controller, one may find a dead short/mosfet failure.

For less then £100 one will get the bike working again with a nice KT set up or one can buy a crappy speed control system for less then £50.
As the bike already has a crappy speed controller system spend the little extra and benefit from nicer rider control input.

 

[saneagle]

No, the controller is completely dry in the photo.
It always worked, even during and after rain.
It only stopped working after being cleaned with a damp cloth.
The controller and cables were in a plastic bag that was secured to the cable harness with a cable tie.
The plugs were damp inside.
But there was no water in the bag.

The buttons and LED display on the LED-880 are working:
View attachment 64126
Could it still be that only the LED880 is defective?

What's that white mark accross the bottom corner of your controller? How did it get there? There's another one higher up at a slightly different angle.

The LED display works independent from the controller. It has its own battery supply and would be fully functional even if you smashed the controller with a sledge hammer or drowned it in water.

 

[Nealh]

Moisture has been involved , it is clear as has been mentioned .
Rusty screws, and water damage marks are visible, open the controller and one will likely see the damage to the PCB.

 

[Tobias Claren]

@Nealh
Yes, the search for a better replacement with a nicer display is also the topic of this thread.
So it feels more like an upgrade than just replacing a damaged part.
I'm looking for a specific replacement for the controller and display.
I don't know which products are suitable, and which of the offers on AliExpress, for example, is the right one.

Yes, moisture.
But the rust on the screws and the white spots are much older.
The fault only occurred after I sprayed it down.


@saneagle
Some kind of coating, possibly lime.
It's been there for a while.
Not just since I hosed down the bike with water, since it stopped working.
There are also traces of adhesive on it.

The LED display only works when I slide the large battery under the seat.
And when the battery pack was empty, not only did the motor shut down, but the display also went blank.

There is no battery compartment, and no screws to open it.
It is not possible to open it, without breaking it.

 

[saneagle]

The LED display only works when I slide the large battery under the seat.
And when the battery pack was empty, not only did the motor shut down, but the display also went blank.

That's right. Both the controller and LED display are powered by the same battery, but they work independently. They are able to talk to each other through the yellow and green wires if you have the UART version of the 880 or through just the green wire if you have the analogue version.

In the 5-way connector, the black and red wires are connected to the battery and they're live as long as the battery is switched on. They provide permanent power to the 880. At that point, there is no power for the controller, so it's in the switched off state. The main battery wires only power the motor. A branch is taken from them to power the 880. When you switch on the 880, the battery voltage becomes latched to the blue wire, which runs back to the controller to power it, so the 880 is the switch for the controller.

Bearing in mind the above, the first test is to check that the controller switches on. You can do that by measuring the voltage on any of the thin red wires that go to the motor, pedal sensor or throttle, but not the one to the 880. When the 880 is switched off they should have zero volts and when switched on, they should have 5v.

 

[Tobias Claren]

I never questioned that.
I'm looking for replacements for both.
One set.
A recommendation, or recommendations for different levels.

 

[saneagle]

I never questioned that.
I'm looking for replacements for both.
One set.
A recommendation, or recommendations for different levels.

Are you OK with soldering and wiring? Do you have the tools to get the cranks and bottom bracket off?

 

[Tobias Claren]

I have a soldering/desoldering station.
I also have various hand tools.
If necessary, I also have an impact wrench.

 

[saneagle]

There are many choices when you want to replace a controller. A basic one that's similar to what you already have is about £20. One with an LCD and 5 levels of assist is about £40. A very nice one that gives a nice ride, allows you to choose the power you want and makes your motor smooth and quiet is about £70.

They nearly all work directly with the motor - just plug in and it works, though rarely, the expensive controller doesn't like the sequence of the wires in the connector, so you have to swap some around, which isn't much of a problem when you have the bullet and block connectors on the controller end of the motor cable, like you have.

Pedal sensors can also give problems, where the wires sequence in the connector doesn't match, so need to be swapped around.

Your motor probably doesn't have a speed sensor in it, so any LCD will not show the correct speed unless you fit an wheel-magnet type speed sensor. They will show the correct speed without one, but only when the motor is giving power. When you freewheel down a hill, it'll show zero speed because the motor won't be turning.

You have to choose a controller that gives the power you want considering the constraint of how much power the battery can give. The maximum power is written on the controller, but the only thing that has a real meaning is the maximum amps. If you want more climbing power, you can choose one with higher maximum amps. Generally, the higher the maximum amps, the bigger the controller. You also need to consider the size of the controller, bearing in mind the constraint of the location where you plan to put it.

The more expensive option controller is normally dual voltage 24v/36v or 36v/48v. This gives the option of changing your battery to 48v when it needs replacing. That gives you 30% more torque, power and speed at the expense of a small loss of efficiency.

To summarise, there are three levels of cost and functionality. All of them will probably require some attention to one or more connectors. Choose one that gives the maximum current and voltage you need.

IMHO, it's worth spending the money to get a sinewave KT controller with LCD, speed sensor and throttle from Topbikekit or wherever you can find one the right size, current and voltage you want. It might be worth getting the 10 magnet PAS too if your present one has 12 magnets, since there can be compatibility issues with those type sensors.

T06S 24V/36V-36V/48V250W 15A KT Sine Wave Brushless Controller for Ebike FT-06 36V250W Torque Simulation Square Wave Controller Brushless Controller for Ebike [T06S controller] - $24.00 : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce

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topbikekit.com

 

[Tobias Claren]

Power is limited by law to 250W, and speed to 25km/h.
And if I change the battery to 48V, I would also have to change the front wheel motor (?).

There is a magnet in the spokes and a cheap speedometer.
Of course, a speedometer in the pedelec display would be more interesting.
I never changed the exotic battery in the cheap speedometer.

Should I choose a throttle grip?
I always read that this is worse than fixed adjustable levels.
Many pedelec riders find this impractical.
No modern and top brand pedelecs has a throttle grip.
It's not an e-bike, it's a pedelec without operating license and license plate.
Continuous acceleration without pedaling is prohibited.
Assistance is only allowed (up to 25 km/h and 250 W) when pedaling.

Is the linked product the cheapest option?
What would be an example of the expensive option?

 

[saneagle]

Power is limited by law to 250W, and speed to 25km/h.
And if I change the battery to 48V, I would also have to change the front wheel motor (?).

There is a magnet in the spokes and a cheap speedometer.
Of course, a speedometer in the pedelec display would be more interesting.
I never changed the exotic battery in the cheap speedometer.

Should I choose a throttle grip?
I always read that this is worse than fixed adjustable levels.
Many pedelec riders find this impractical.
No modern and top brand pedelecs has a throttle grip.
It's not an e-bike, it's a pedelec without operating license and license plate.
Continuous acceleration without pedaling is prohibited.
Assistance is only allowed (up to 25 km/h and 250 W) when pedaling.

Is the linked product the cheapest option?
What would be an example of the expensive option?

The power is not limited by law to 250w. there is no limit to how much power you use, nor how much your motor can give. The law is that the motor must be rated at no more than 250w.

Using a different battery doesn't change the motor's rating in any way. 36v motors generally run OK at 48v. The higher voltage causes them to make more torque and it shifts the power characteristics up the rpm range by 30%, so if you get peak power and efficiency at 15 mph, they'll both shift up to 20 mph, which means a slight loss of efficiency at 15 mph and a bigger loss of efficiency at say 8 mph, but that's more than compensated for by the additional torque.

If your bike has aluminium forks, you should fit a torque arm to the axle when running at 48v because the dropouts need more support to deal with the higher torque.

You can use your speedometer sensor for the speed display on any controller with LCD. You cut the head off, and join one wire to the white wire in the motor connector and the other to any 5v wire. If you buy a KT controller, it's only a few quid to get a speed sensor with it that's plug and play.

For a KT controller, you should get a throttle - the simplest thumb lever type. The KT has a special desirable legal throttle function that no other ebike system has - when pedalling, the throttle becomes a max power over-ride, which is very useful and definitely worth the £3 for the throttle. If you get another type of controller, you probably can't meake the throttle legal, so don't bother getting one.

The linked one is a KT controller, which is what I was referring to as the expensive option.

 

[Sparksandbangs]

I might be wrong but I don't think this is a UK build. Legislation will depend upon jurisdiction.

 

[saneagle]

I might be wrong but I don't think this is a UK build. Legislation will depend upon jurisdiction.

The standard for Europe is EN 15194, the same as UK.

 

[Tobias Claren]

OK, Let's summarize "T06S" with LCD3 Display.
For example:
At Topbikekit ~$70 and ~$30 postage with China Post.
"T06S 24V/36V-36V/48V250W 15A KT Sine Wave Brushless Controller for Ebike
Display - KT LCD3
Brake - With Normal Brake
Voltage - 36V/48V
Throttle - 130D Thumb Throttle
PAS - BZ-10C
Speed sensor - Speed Sensor
HWBS - HWBS"

Or:
"T06S 15A
LCD3
Throttle
PAS
Brake Lever (2)
Speed Sensor"
for €81,69 + €190,56 = 101,25


To be honest direct chinese offers are much better in terms of information and illustrations.
Plug types, dimensions, photos of all individual parts (Topbikekit has no descriptions or photos of the options, apparently for geeks who know all this by heart ;-) ).
Strangely enough, I can only find a few offers with the term “T06S,” and they all have around €20 shipping.
There are also offers with lights (C7 or C13), but only with an LCD4 display.
These cost around €145 as a complete kit.




Another question:
I dried all the connectors again.


Some wires came out of two connectors.
On the left, only one wire came out of one of them, and since there is only one socket in the connector, the blue wire goes into the middle of the left connector (black cable from the controller).
Is it the same for the right connector?
Red to red, and the loose blue to black in the middle.
ChatGPT claims the following:

* Left:
Blue belongs in the middle → connects to black from the controller. (So far, so good).

* Right: loose red and blue cables that still have their metal sockets attached → You assume red to red, but you are unsure about the blue wire: whether it should go to black or turquoise.

Applied to your picture
* Red <=> red: absolutely correct, that's the 5V supply.
* Blue <=> turquoise: yes, very likely. That would be one of the three Hall signals.
* Blue <=> black would be wrong because black is ground – if you connect blue there, you would short-circuit the Hall signal and possibly damage the sensor.


I will then secure them with two-component adhesive to prevent them from pulling out.
Previously, they used hot glue, which is not ideal (if you dry it warm).
And I will polish the contacts clean.

 

[saneagle]

OK, Let's summarize "T06S" with LCD3 Display.
For example:
At Topbikekit ~$70 and ~$30 postage with China Post.
"T06S 24V/36V-36V/48V250W 15A KT Sine Wave Brushless Controller for Ebike
Display - KT LCD3
Brake - With Normal Brake
Voltage - 36V/48V
Throttle - 130D Thumb Throttle
PAS - BZ-10C
Speed sensor - Speed Sensor
HWBS - HWBS"

Or:
"T06S 15A
LCD3
Throttle
PAS
Brake Lever (2)
Speed Sensor"
for €81,69 + €190,56 = 101,25


To be honest direct chinese offers are much better in terms of information and illustrations.
Plug types, dimensions, photos of all individual parts (Topbikekit has no descriptions or photos of the options, apparently for geeks who know all this by heart ;-) ).
Strangely enough, I can only find a few offers with the term “T06S,” and they all have around €20 shipping.
There are also offers with lights (C7 or C13), but only with an LCD4 display.
These cost around €145 as a complete kit.




Another question:
I dried all the connectors again.
View attachment 64209

Some wires came out of two connectors.
On the left, only one wire came out of one of them, and since there is only one socket in the connector, the blue wire goes into the middle of the left connector (black cable from the controller).
Is it the same for the right connector?
Red to red, and the loose blue to black in the middle.
ChatGPT claims the following:

* Left:
Blue belongs in the middle → connects to black from the controller. (So far, so good).

* Right: loose red and blue cables that still have their metal sockets attached → You assume red to red, but you are unsure about the blue wire: whether it should go to black or turquoise.

Applied to your picture
* Red <=> red: absolutely correct, that's the 5V supply.
* Blue <=> turquoise: yes, very likely. That would be one of the three Hall signals.
* Blue <=> black would be wrong because black is ground – if you connect blue there, you would short-circuit the Hall signal and possibly damage the sensor.


I will then secure them with two-component adhesive to prevent them from pulling out.
Previously, they used hot glue, which is not ideal (if you dry it warm).
And I will polish the contacts clean.

Blue and red are two-wire reed type brake switches, which work with all controllers. The other connector is for a three-wire hall sensor brake switch, which needs a 5v supply, either in the connector, like yours, or separately if you have two-wire connectors on the controller. To connect the two-wires to the three-wire connector, one wire goes to ground (black) and the other goes to signal (green). It doesn't make any difference which way round they go.

The way the brake switch works, whether you have a 2 or 3 wire one is that the signal wire is held at 5v through a high value resistor inside the controller. You can measure 5v on it, but it's not a real 5v that you can draw any current from. When you operate the switch, the signal wire is shorted to the ground, which makes the 5v collapse to zero. The controller watches the signal wire, and when it sees 5v (high), it allows the power, and when it sees 0v (low), it cuts the power.

HWBS is a three-wire in-line cable sensor. It works on any cable brake, but you have to cut off 2" of outer cable to compensate for its length. It's directional, so you have to install it the right way round. You don't need them if you have switches in the lever or any other arrangements, so you choose one or the other when ordering.

T06S is a unique in-house designation for a KT 6 MOSFET controller listed by Topbikekit. Other suppliers have different designations, like BMSBattery S06S. You can find the same controllers listed on Ebay, Aliexpress and Amazon as 36v KT controllers. Sometimes it's good to hunt around when you want a specific version, like a 17A one or 20A one. Also, the 17A and 20A ones come in three different size aluminium cases. Some bikes have limited space in the compartment for the larger sizes. The larger sizes handle heat better.